They sang this song at Aston uni gig in1983 i thougt ihad imagined this  but  i saw this song in review in nme in 83

This song featured in a gig review then?  The plot thickens. Must dig out my old NMEs. 

Is there a recording of it from the '83 gigs Ian or are you going by what you recall hearing from then? 

Does it sound like it belongs on V Deep or ITLG?

I have a few papers from '83 but no Rats' gig review 

I have just found a company that will convert old cassettes to cd, so I have posted it off to them. Although I'm not totally confident with computers I am pretty sure I won't have any trouble burning a few cds off for those who want one, and it should be the whole gig as well!

Derek The Dane wrote:

---

I have the Bradford gig on cd,not sure whether it is the full set list but it has the mystery song on it.I wrote to Pete Briquette but he never replied about the mystery song.It is a great concert and it is interesting listening to the early versions of the songs from ITLG.

---

Ah yes, I remember doing a copy for you a couple of years ago when I had a tape to tape hi-fi. You said you had a mate who could put it on cd didn't you?

ArrGee1991 wrote:

---

bradford part 1 mega.co.nz/

---

 Thanks for that ArrGee. I have only listened to the 'lost' song once, and it seems fairly ok to me. Certainly better than the 4 new songs the did recently. I will listen on my proper hi fi later and make a better judgement. All that brass and horns does make it sound a bit like Spandau Ballet or even Teardrop Explodes to some degree. Sort of makes the Rats themselves a bit redundant, thought the playing is energetic and frenetic. 

Also glad to hear a live Hard Times and Up or Down. Need to listen a few times to get a better picture,as it were.

PS I think the reason the  Rats did a Uni/Poly type tour in 1983 is that the were in trouble with the taxman(or taxwoman)

noelindublin wrote:

---

Second opinion on I Don't Wan't To Do It, is that it is rather forgettable, and one for the cutting room floor.

I noticed also on listening to the Bradford gig last night that a lot of the lyrics underwent major rewrites prior to the recording of ITLG. Hard Times in particular seems full of lines not used, and the recording quality, though fairly good does not help to make out the words.

Same with Drag Me Down.Also noticed total silence from audience just before they started this songs. The really interesting thing about this tape is that it was well over a a year before ITLG was recorded, so lots of the songs are not fully worked out yet. Lucky also has lots of lyric changes, thought the tunes are more or less as the appear in the recorded version of ITLG. The arrangement of Hard Times too seems a bit all over the place, though as I saw it's fascinating to think that a lot of the songs were new,and in the process of being fully completed. Also the band did not seem to hold back from the new songs, and the audience seems to clap along and accept the new material.

Amusingly Bob throws a strop when asked to perform particular songs. Seems to reply (paraphrasing) something like ' Well play whatever song we like, and if you don't like it we'll just go home...'

Really liked live version of Wind Chill Factor. The lp version is overproduced, and the live version here seems to let the instruments 'breathe' a little, great percussion on the 'do you agree with anything' bridge.

Wasn't too keen on live Up or Down, seemed a bit cluttered and frenetic, though lp version works out well.I've never disliked Charmed Lives, though I know it's far   from their best, live it can sound pretty ok and the irony laden lyrics aimed at the new romantic pop singers are pretty accurate.

The Bradford gig was 23 June 1983. It would be nearly a year and a third before In The Long Grass was released so seeing these early tryouts of  songs in a live context in very interesting.

-- Edited by noelindublin on Tuesday 10th of February 2015 02:50:55 PM

---

I don't know where I picked the tape of the Bradford gig up from, probably from a record fair at The Brighton Centre many many years ago, but i'm glad I kept hold of it.

I also have a bootleg of the gig they did in Sunderland just 6 months later (10th Dec 1983). Up or Down is the 2nd song on it and again Simon is singing lead vocals on it (rather good in my humble opinion). No sign of Don't Feel Like Doing It though so may have been dropped! Bob also mentions that some of the songs will be appearing on their new album In The Long Grass.

Mark L wrote:

---

Assume the sad event giving rise to Dave had yet to happen?

---

Not sure. It was sometime in 1983 when Geldof wrote the song after Dave McHale's girlfriend died from a heroin overdose.    In The Long Grass was written and recorded in 1983 as Tonight was released as the lead single in early February 1984.

http://www.hotpress.com/news/Geldof-reunites-with-fellow-Rats-in-Blackrock/5545105.html

Mark L wrote:

---

I prefer Up or Down live. I noticed the lyric changes but as Noel says, quite hard to make out although 'the fog of the night' seems to feature in Drag me Down with 'but is it always like this with you' changed to 'I've got to insist it's you' etc. 

Assume the sad event giving rise to Dave had yet to happen?

Wonder if Another Sad Story was aired at all in '83 - really like this track from ITLG. Again, maybe Fingers was yet to experience what prompted this song.

---

 I only listened to the Bradford gig in full, once, a few nights ago, so my opinion are subject to change again. I might not be being fair on Up Or Down, the live version. The recorded version has a sense of instrumental clarity, like all recorded music, whilst live music can seem a bit all over the place. Sometimes live versions and recorded versions can really compliment each other, while conversely sometimes, and usually I prefer the recorded version of a song, and find the live version to be hard to deal with.

As an example if I was to judge the live 1983 version of Hard Times it would seem a bit of a dog's (or rats!) dinner, kind of all over the place, lacking the structure and clarity of the version put down on tape for ITLG. Add to this the lyrics, which seem totally different, and due to the limitations of the source  tape,are not too clear. The producer/mixers etc  in the studio often help to bring some much needed organisation' to a song. Look at how Mondays turned out, compared to the early 'reggae' type version, which in my opinion was very unimpressive. 

Again what I find so fascinating about this Bradford  concert is how the Rats launched into so many new songs. It seemed they were willing to go with the idea of a new album after the disappointment of V Deep and had no qualms about just going out and airing these new songs. Brave in many ways, as they could have  just gone through the motions of their earlier 'greatest hits' package and the students  may not have been too bothered.

Ian D wrote:

---

Mark L wrote:

---

I prefer Up or Down live. I noticed the lyric changes but as Noel says, quite hard to make out although 'the fog of the night' seems to feature in Drag me Down with 'but is it always like this with you' changed to 'I've got to insist it's you' etc. 

Assume the sad event giving rise to Dave had yet to happen?

Wonder if Another Sad Story was aired at all in '83 - really like this track from ITLG. Again, maybe Fingers was yet to experience what prompted this song.

---

Dave was played at the Sunderland gig, 10/12/83

---

 Thanks Ian.  It seems she died during the tour as Bob speaks elsewhere of dropping Dave off after a gig, a row between Dave and his partner and then his gruesome discovery later after she had made herself scarce.  

noelindublin wrote:

---

Mark L wrote:

---

I prefer Up or Down live. I noticed the lyric changes but as Noel says, quite hard to make out although 'the fog of the night' seems to feature in Drag me Down with 'but is it always like this with you' changed to 'I've got to insist it's you' etc. 

Assume the sad event giving rise to Dave had yet to happen?

Wonder if Another Sad Story was aired at all in '83 - really like this track from ITLG. Again, maybe Fingers was yet to experience what prompted this song.

---

 I only listened to the Bradford gig in full, once, a few nights ago, so my opinion are subject to change again. I might not be being fair on Up Or Down, the live version. The recorded version has a sense of instrumental clarity, like all recorded music, whilst live music can seem a bit all over the place. Sometimes live versions and recorded versions can really compliment each other, while conversely sometimes, and usually I prefer the recorded version of a song, and find the live version to be hard to deal with.

As an example if I was to judge the live 1983 version of Hard Times it would seem a bit of a dog's (or rats!) dinner, kind of all over the place, lacking the structure and clarity of the version put down on tape for ITLG. Add to this the lyrics, which seem totally different, and due to the limitations of the source  tape,are not too clear. The producer/mixers etc  in the studio often help to bring some much needed organisation' to a song. Look at how Mondays turned out, compared to the early 'reggae' type version, which in my opinion was very unimpressive. 

Again what I find so fascinating about this Bradford  concert is how the Rats launched into so many new songs. It seemed they were willing to go with the idea of a new album after the disappointment of V Deep and had no qualms about just going out and airing these new songs. Brave in many ways, as they could have  just gone through the motions of their earlier 'greatest hits' package and the students  may not have been too bothered.

---

 I had another listen to this over the weekend. It was very brave. There was no Mondays, SLAY or anything from the first album. Drag me Down improved in the studio version with the 'in pink and, in pink and, in pink and gold' refrain and the eight 'Oh oh's' after the steal from Born to Run. Hard Times live was really good live and was not made better in the studio, maybe the lyrics were developed and the 'I don't care's' were thinned out a bit. Lots of banter between Geldof and the boisterous audience and Simon sang well on Up or Down. 

Wonder if anyone felt shortchanged attending a Rats gig less than 4 years after Mondays hit the top and not hearing it?

Maybe Bob just thought 'I don't feel like doin' it doin' it' 

Have to say the Oxford gig was great