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Post Info TOPIC: Where's the groove?
Have you heard any REAL African music? [6 vote(s)]

Yes
83.3%
No
0.0%
Not knowingly
16.7%


House on Fire

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Where's the groove?
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Hyde Park, London: Coldplay, Dido, Sir Elton John, Keane, Annie Lennox, Madonna, Mariah Carey, Muse, Scissor Sisters, Sir Paul McCartney, Joss Stone, Razorlight, Stereophonics, Sting, Robbie Williams, U2, REM, Velvet Revolver, Bob Geldof, The Killers, The Cure, Snow Patrol


This list of artists has already been aptly commented upon for it's meagre black representation.


But where are the artists from Africa itself?  The musicians there are so incredibly talented, yet our picture of Africa is just the starving kid with big sunken eyes, hollow cheeks and begging bowl.  That's not the whole story!  African bands should have been given the opportunity to showcase their wonderful, wonderful music.  Think about it, all our popular music is derived from African music.  Let them show that they've "still got it"!



-- Edited by oeokosko at 00:49, 2005-06-03

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V Deep

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The groove's in Philly, of course.




  • Will Smith (host)
  • P Diddy
  • Stevie Wonder
  • Jay-Z
  • 50 Cent



-- Edited by franna at 02:47, 2005-06-03

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House on Fire

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A young black American actor, three young black American rappers, and an aging black American soul artist with flagging popularity?  Which isn't meaning to take anything away from Stevie Wonder's achievements; he's not my favourite amongst that generation of soul artists, but I recognise his past successes.


But take this guy, Koko Kanyinda, for instance.  He is the same sort of age as Stevie Wonder, he and his band are based in the UK, and THEY ROCK.  Not a headline act I grant you, and probably very few people would await their performance on stage with bated breath, but many might be surprised at what Africa has to offer.  After being fed on a diet of manufactured tunes by the music industry, that would come as a revellation, like discovering pizza after a lifetime of processed cheese and margarine on sliced white bread.


There is a world of music out there, just as there is a world of misery, and the two often go hand in hand (Haiti, Cuba, Mali, Chad, Congo, etc.)



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Quote: "A young black American actor, three young black American rappers, and an aging black American soul artist with flagging popularity? "


As I am AMERICAN, I have a certain affection for my culture.   No, I'll be bold.  I'll call it what it is: love.   (And I'm not the only American reading this board.)


Besides, this is the PHILLY lineup.  You don't need to fly over.  Really. 


In case you didn't know, Americans generally don't like the UK top 40 all that much.


 


Quote:  "He and his band are based in the UK"


'Twould be better marketing on your part if you'd told me they were in Brooklyn.  And they certainly sound like they could be.


Now that I think of it, if you're selling them as "authentic" African musicians.....shouldn't they be living in, um, AFRICA????


 


Quote:  "THEY ROCK"


Actually, they sound like an old Paul Simon record (one with Ladysmith Black Mambazo - which made Ladysmith famous in their own right).  Your guys aren't bad, in fact they're quite good, but hardly a revelation in sound, or in the human spirit.


 


Quote: "Not a headline act I grant you, and probably very few people would await their performance on stage"


If your real complaint is that they're not playing Live 8 in London, posting about it on this board probably isn't a very effective way to change that.  But I wish you luck. 


Still, if the point of Live 8 is to create the LARGEST POSSIBLE number of G 8 citizens who are willing to appply political pressure on their leaders, I think you've just made a good case against including them as performers. 


 


QUOTE: "After being fed on a diet of manufactured tunes by the music industry, that would come as a revellation, like discovering pizza after a lifetime of processed cheese and margarine on sliced white bread."


I don't consider myself to have spent a lifetime feeding entirely on manufactured tunes by the music industry.  I HAVE spent a lifetime eating pizza, and neither processed cheese or margarine ever knowingly pass my lips.


Note:  It's bad marketing to insult your target audience.  And to lecture them, especially about music.  Shall I lecture you about the glory of opera?  "Country" music?  Cumbia?  Klezmer? Would that make you a fan?  


 


QUOTE: "There is a world of music out there, just as there is a world of misery, and the two often go hand in hand (Haiti, Cuba, Mali, Chad, Congo, etc.)"


Given the context of WHERE you're posting, I'd change the end of that sentence to read (Sex, Age and Death).  ALL human beings are capable of misery (and joy), and they're making music of it EVERYWHERE.   One need not live in an oppressive political/economic regime to have emotion.



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Tonight

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Sir Bob is doing a wonderful thing & 20 years is a long time for poverty to exist on such a level as it has in many parts of Africa while other sections of the world population are choosing which new automobile to purchase. Humanity needs to get together and spread the wealth. At the same time, we all agreee (or we would not be participating in this forum) that music is the soul of the people. So why are there not more African musicians performing at the venues? i do not mean African-Americans and I am not talking about skincolor, I mean musicians from the continent of Africa. There are plenty of them would would love to play at this event, plus the audiences would enjoy something new. The schedule could be every other artist or 2 Euro/Americans to 1 African if necessary, like that. To leave Africans out of the lineups just doesn't make sense. You are missing a part of life if you've not seen African shows! Here are the African perfomers for Philadelphia, already living in US and don't need visas: Antibalas Afrobeat Orchestra, Shimita El Diego & Affro-Muzika, and the Soukous Stars. In London: Koko Kanyinda & Soukous Koumbele. For the other world venues: King Sunny Ade (Nigeria), Habib Koite (Mali), Lucky Dube (South Africa/Reggae), Africando (Senegal/Afro-Cuban/Salsa), Rachid Taha (North Africa), Khaled (North Africa), J.B. Mpiana Anti-Terro Band & Show (Congo), Mahotella Queens (South Africa), Ihashi Elinlophe (South Africa), Oliver Mtukdzi (South Africa). I now you guys have heard of these people, if you are going to give money, you must!  How can these performers contact the promoters? Thanks for listening to this idea, and best wishes for a successful event.

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Mary of the 4th Form

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I concur with Oeokosko and Motema. This is a concert  to bring attention to the poverty issues relating to Africa then  why are there no Africans being showcased to be participants in the lineup of  artists? There will be  thousands watching the various venues from Africa and who do they relate to better the "Spice Girls" who had the moments of fame or someone who is familiar and I mean really familiar to what the plight of Africans really is.


Of course there is  the usual   Youssou N'Dour that seems to be the token "African"(said without malice) that appears at all concerts designated to  bring attention to the ills of Africa.  He has brought more attention in a positive light it is now time to share the stage. There is a whole world of music which remains untapped to most people who are not familiar with  the tremendous talent from the continent and the many who have subsequently made their homes in other respective countries. Continuing to play for the love of music and the homes they left behind.  


To the poster Franna your sarcasm is duely noted, an attitude  of such negativity how does this help in bringing people together to get a clearer understanding?


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'Twould be better marketing on your part if you'd told me they were in Brooklyn.  And they certainly sound like they could be.



 


Now that I think of it, if you're selling them as "authentic" African musicians.....shouldn't they be living in, um, AFRICA????


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It shows how little you do know or are interested in African culture. I'm not here to argue with posters or beleaguer  the issue why there is such disparity of opinions. It is about bringing attention and change. That being the case then Africans should be inclusive in concerts such as this to express themselves, the difficulties that most if not all have had to endure living under repressive regimes and dictatorships. Only trying to eke out a living to support their families and extended families and for the love of music which without most of what you are listening to would be non exsistant.


Check out the African forum where music is discussed in depth by knowledgeable musicologists and  connoisseurs. Tap into some of the links come to the music forum and  listen to what is out there. This is not a competition of who is better more in the lines of what has been missing!http://www.clubafrika.com
 


 



-- Edited by Alli at 20:40, 2005-06-03

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House on Fire

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I've thought about what to reply and decided it is just not worth it - we are on completely different wavelengths, other than the opera and the cumbia that is.  If you don't want to look outside your village, that is your business.


I won't say any more, only show this obscenity - considering that Africa has produced, still does produce, legions of superb guitarists




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Tonight

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To hear some current good African tunes, go to www.panafricanallstars.com and try some of those stations. I like Sauti Ya Ingoo (sounds of home). Enjoy!

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Alli wrote:
To the poster Franna your sarcasm is duely noted, an attitude  of such negativity how does this help in bringing people together to get a clearer understanding?

I was being insulted.  I shot back.  My response had nothing to do with bringing people together.

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Mary of the 4th Form

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Where was it directed at you personally? I believe he commented on the line up of performers not insulting or attacking you.......

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House on Fire

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franna wrote:


I was being insulted.  I shot back.  My response had nothing to do with bringing people together.

Correction.  You felt you were being insulted.  There was no intention on my part.

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Tonight

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I personally would like to hear some authentic African music on the lineup. However, before you all continue judging and accusing Bob and the other Live 8 organizer, I'll just bring up this point: Do you know for sure that no African musicians were approached for the gig? Do you know for a fact that African musicians approached the Live 8 organizers and were turned down? Are you an African musician who was turned down??


I'm pretty sure none of us has inside info on how it's like to organize an event of this magnitude. It's really easy to pass judgement while sitting on our butt at home.


 



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House on Fire

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No, no and no.  Neither do I represent any African band, nor even know anyone in an African band. But I know a man who does, as the saying goes.  Well one or two actually.


I fully appreciate about the organisation required for such an event.  I'm sure it was all fixed up with the bands involved some time ago because the timescale from launch to 2 July was so short and the bands themselves have a busy schedule.  In short, a logistic nightmare.


OK, now for the possibility of including African bands.  Visas are the big hurdle and they take a long time to organise.  Hence I focussed on bands already in the country (UK in my case and the only band I know - or rather would like to have seen included, as there is a Somali band I know of that I'm not over-enamoured with - is Soukous Koumbele).


I just find it incredibly depressing that this opportunity has been missed - again.  I'd fall over backwards if it turned out that an authentic African band had turned down the chance of being in the line-up.  To me, it seems now like the event is just going to be the same old fading farts desperate for a last burst of glory plus some new acts to attract the kids and get the TV companies committed.  It wouldn't have hurt the event to have had an African band in there at each venue to show another side of Africa - fully competent people.


Whilst I fully support the G8 protest and, above all, want to see the heat turned up on the bankers who stow away the proceeds of aid to corrupt African leaders and use it fund further exploitation of Africa, I do not support the concerts and certainly won't be listening in.  I'll be listening to a small selection of my extensive collection of African music.


What African music would you have liked to have had included in the concerts MJ?



-- Edited by oeokosko at 22:05, 2005-06-04

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Alli wrote:


Where was it directed at you personally? I believe he commented on the line up of performers not insulting or attacking you.......


I agree, it was not directed at me personally.  It does seem to have been directed at the insufficiency of my culture.


From the outset, I find it offensive that oeokoso's very FIRST post on this site is not only a rant,  but a rant with a POLL!   The poll, which I view as enormously arrogant in itself, pushed me over the edge. 


The concert in London is not my focus.  The concert in Philly is.  As far as I can see, the Philly show features roughly 50% black performers.  But apparently it's not good enough that they're black and American.  They have to be African to be good enough.  They have to be African to have a groove.


That chart-topping black Americans somehow aren't "enough" to play in America is insulting.


The idea of who is or isn't black enough, what human beings can or cannot possess a "groove" is unspeakably offensive to me.  Oh, and by the way, Dave Matthews grew up in Africa - but he's white (with a VERY interracial band), and he doesn't play "African" music - so I guess he doesn't count either.  (His is also one of the most popular bands in the US.)


I'm very proud that Philly has so many black artists participating.  As an American, and as far as American culture and unity is concerned, it's important.


I'd be fine with it if the show included "African" artists in some small measure.  You'd probably be pissed off because then they'd be "tokens."


I don't see these shows as showcases for African culture.  I see them as events to generate as much press as possible, to reach as many citizens of G8 countries as possible, to put as much pressure as possible on a very few world leaders.  That will happen through presenting the biggest "names" in each country.  Frankly, I'm much more concerned about the lack of German artists participating in the Berlin show than I am about the presence of African artists.  I don't think Crosby, Stills & Nash (American) should be playing Berlin, though I understand why they want to.


In addition, since these shows are not about raising money, they will most likely have to attract corporate sponsorship of some type to cover the costs of security, portable toilets, trash collection, medical personnel, equipment, etc etc etc...anything that the organisers can't manage to get people to donate.  Again, I see it as reason to focus on musicians who will draw the biggest crowds.


My opinion is that there's every reason to make the inclusion of the biggest names in music in each country the top priority.  I don't know of any chart topping musicians in Great Britain who happen to be black and British citizens.  But, if there are, I think they should be included as long as they agree to donate their time and they can fit in the schedule. 


Again, I have no problem with the inclusion of "African" artists, as long as to do so would not diminish the expected crowd, press, and sponsorship money.



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Tonight

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Oh Franna!you were going good til you said "would diminish the expected attendance and sponsorhip"! Shame on you! You mean people would not go if there were African music? I am shocked, stunned, and appalled! and hurt.

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motema2004 wrote:



Oh Franna!you were going good til you said "would diminish the expected attendance and sponsorhip"! Shame on you! You mean people would not go if there were African music? I am shocked, stunned, and appalled! and hurt.



Yes, I believe there will be more press, more dollars, and more British citizens attending an event to see Coldplay, Dido, Sir Elton John, Keane, Annie Lennox, Madonna, Mariah Carey, Muse, Scissor Sisters, Sir Paul McCartney, Joss Stone, Razorlight, Stereophonics, Sting, Robbie Williams, U2, REM, Velvet Revolver, Bob Geldof, The Killers, The Cure, and Snow Patrol (with the possibility of adding one or two relatively unknown African bands) than there would be to see 22 unknown African bands plus one or two of the "names" above.


I feel the same way about an American show consisting of Will Smith, Bon Jovi, Maroon 5, P Diddy, Stevie Wonder, Jay-Z, The Dave Matthews Band, Sarah McLachlan, Rob Thomas, Keith Urban, 50 Cent and Kaiser Chiefs (plus, say King Sunny Ade and Ladymith - both of which I'd guess are probably among the most well known African bands in America) - than simply Sunny Ade, Ladysmith, and 10 other unknown African bands plus two of the American (OK, and Canadian [McLachlan] & Australian [Urban]) "names."


I believe the more "unknowns" (African or otherwise) = the fewer press, dollars, attendance and political pressure.  (I'm sorry that hurts you, but I think it's so close to fact that I have a hard time considering it opinion.)


I believe it's a balance, and in my opinion, this time - press, money and political pressure have to take priority.


 



-- Edited by franna at 20:49, 2005-06-05

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House on Fire

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Ah!  So, franna, you thought I was proposing that the line-ups for the concerts should be African bands only.  Where did you read that in my posts?


My position was, and remains, exactly as you yourself put forward and for exactly the reasons you gave: local headliners with one or two African bands so that the concerts get the attention and the press coverage and Africa has a chance to show itself in a positive light for a change.


It is clearer to me now why you reacted the way you did but I still think you over-reacted, that you made way too many assumptions.



-- Edited by oeokosko at 21:28, 2005-06-05

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No, I did not make the assumption that you wanted the shows to be all African.   I made the assumption that, say, 5% African and 95% non-African would not be acceptable to you.  Perhaps that was incorrect.


Still, I don't think we're in agreement, because I'm OK with a 100% non-African show.  (As I've said, I do not consider including African bands the highest priority here, even though it might be nice.)  In a perfect world, it wouldn't be that way; but if the world were perfect, these shows would not exist at all.


You're so opposed to that notion that you refuse to support the Live 8 effort at all, and go so far as to call Geldof obscene.


Now, I'm not one to spout off in praise of Geldof's abilities as a guitarist, but to go so far as to call him obscene?  If I'm guilty of overreacting, so are you.


 



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Tonight

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What is wrong with you people?



Not only is this issue completely trivial, but some of you somehow manage to make every other subject turn into the same issue.



Why is it that every one of these subjects somehow gets turned into the lack of African American artists?



How many people around the world honestly know all of the African bands you all mention?



How many people will care if they play or not?



How many people honestly feel that there is a true injustice by Bob Geldof not letting the true Africans play in something that will help them?



Only you people.



And if you didn't already know, Bob Geldof never reads these posts. So your insignificant matter will never reach the head hancho in charge. Quit complaining and watch the show. For cryin' out loud...



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Never In A Million Years

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meekus, did you realise that you used the same post twice? or was that to make the point that most posts do seem to be about the lack of african performers? the idea of live 8 is for awareness- it just so happens that 'white' performers will raise the most

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Tonight

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It was to make the point that the same topis is being addressed in three different topics. I's madness. Someone in a topis that I had created (now closed) "Is Bob Geldof Just a Nazi?" Tried to change the topic to the same thing, once again. My point in that specific topic was a joke, if you could not tell.


Even so, my joke almost turned into people claiming that Geldof's a racist again, that there aren't enough (any?) African artists to perform at Live 8.


Your issue is fine with me. I personally don't care, but you can talk about it and I'll state my opinion. But it just seems odd to have the same topic in "Lack of Black Artists", "Live8 line-up 'patronising' to Africans", and here in "Where's the groove?"


Hence, I posted the same thing in all three to get my point across.


Make sense? My replies do. The fact that I had to post it three times in three different places doesn't.



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Never In A Million Years

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i understand ur point meekus......and the fact people are calling bob geldof racist...now thats a joke. i dont know of many people who are more opposite of racist than him

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House on Fire

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iluvbobgeldof wrote:



i understand ur point meekus......and the fact people are calling bob geldof racist...now thats a joke. i dont know of many people who are more opposite of racist than him


Who's calling Geldof racist?

-- Edited by oeokosko at 07:37, 2005-06-13

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Never In A Million Years

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there have been other posts where bob has been called racist

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Tonight

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Certainly he is NOT NOT NOT a racist! Nobody could say that. He's certainly not a racist.



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Never In A Million Years

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he definately is not!!! i was pointing out my disgust that people would think that

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