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Rat Trap

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Get your tickets...  get your tickets here...  I've got a great deal on 10 tickets!!!!!


 



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Tonight

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They're supposed to be free...

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meekus wrote:

They're supposed to be free...



They are not free - they have been won in a lottery.

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MJ


Tonight

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This is a very bad place to try to sell Live 8 tickets. Beware the WRATH of BOB! Hope for your sake you don't have a static IP

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Nice link, MJ - I especially liked the photo!


Bob, could you please convince Paul McGuinness to take the same approach to eBay?  Thanks.



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Rat Trap

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MJ wrote:


This is a very bad place to try to sell Live 8 tickets. Beware the WRATH of BOB! Hope for your sake you don't have a static IP


So now we aren't only communists but also bullies who threaten people because we don't agree with their views.  How very liberal of you.



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Tonight

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Whoever said (and what gives you the right to say) that we're Communists? If we think that tickets should be free because that's what was planned, that doesn't make us Communists. If you were to believe in the sale of tickets - which I guess you do - then could we assume that everyone who has ever purchased any item of service is strictly Capitalist? Would the people who advertise and try to win over customers be called Conservative?


And what is so wrong with being Liberal? I did not see anyone threaten you, just give you a link to a news story. You who are so fast to call the people in here Communists and Liberals might yourself (from our now known knowledge) be a hardcore Conservative Capitalist.


One more thing I'd like to point out: it is typically not the way of a Liberal to be threatening of those who "don't agree with their views." It is quite the other way 'round, in fact. http://www.reandev.com/taliban/



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meekus wrote:


Whoever said (and what gives you the right to say) that we're Communists? If we think that tickets should be free because that's what was planned, that doesn't make us Communists.


Why are you saying that the tickets are free? They are not free - you had to play lottery (that was not free) to win one. Price people paid for text messages is the price to take part in the lottery.


As the tickets are lottery prizes they are not free - they are goods someone paid for. And I know of only one type of economic system where it was illegal to resell any goods someone paid money for - Communist system.


In Soviet Union it was illegal to resell any goods with a profit. Now Bob Geldof thinks along the same lines - he sold the goods (people paid to send a text message and money went to a bank account that is used by Bob to organize the concert) and now he tries to prevent anybody to resell the goods. What is the difference between Bob and the Communists?


 



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Tonight

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No one is saying that they can't be resold, but the idea was for them not to be. If some sleazy Capitalists want to take full advantage of our systems of economy, then they have every legal right to do so. It seems shameful that anyone would do it when the cause is to save people. I see it as equivalent to businessmen finding poached people in the desert, and then selling them water for $100 per bottle. It is just plain wrong.


Perhaps there is not much of a difference between Bob and Communists. But what is so bad about a system where there is ECONOMIC FAIRNESS?! What if Bob believes (and I'm not saying he does) that there should be fairness of money and less hoarding of wealth? Even if he sees what is happening as immoral, how can you say from his actions that he is forcing his morality upon you? Unless you had planned to win (buy) and resell tickets, or were stopped from doing so, then you have no reason whatsoever to complain. What's more, you never have had any room to try to call us Communists for sharing one man's thoughts. 


And, for the last time, those texts paid for the lottery are incredibly insignificant. Yes, profit is made. But unlike the people who would resell the tickets to get rich quick, the phone companies are not going to suddenly boost texting costs for the Live 8 lottery just to make more money.



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meekus wrote:





Perhaps there is not much of a difference between Bob and Communists. But what is so bad about a system where there is ECONOMIC FAIRNESS?! What if Bob believes (and I'm not saying he does) that there should be fairness of money and less hoarding of wealth?



So he is a Communist? :)


If you don't know what is bad about the communist system - go to North Korea. I think you will learn and quite fast what is happenning when people cannot sell goods for profit because the powerfull ones decided that hoarding of wealth is not fair and force this on other people.


 


 



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meekus wrote:





If some sleazy Capitalists want to take full advantage of our systems of economy...


Wow, imagine that, a liberal resorting to name calling!


It seems shameful that anyone would do it when the cause is to save people.


Yes.  Much like those dastardly nurses that actually make money saving lives or those darned band-aid manufacturers.  Making money...  How dare they!!


I see it as equivalent to businessmen finding poached people in the desert, and then selling them water for $100 per bottle.


Making the large assumption that it was poor people bidding on the tickets.  What if it was Bill Gates who bid on the tickets... whats $100 per bottle when the buyer has $100000000000?


It is just plain wrong.


If you are referring to the Liberal way of thinking.


Perhaps there is not much of a difference between Bob and Communists.


AMEN to that


But what is so bad about a system where there is ECONOMIC FAIRNESS?!


Show me where this ideal of Communism has worked.  At best it has proven to be a stifling system that forces society to be no better than the worst link in the chain.


What if Bob believes (and I'm not saying he does) that there should be fairness of money and less hoarding of wealth?


Are all you arguements such straw men?  How disappointing.  Define 'hoarding of wealth.'  All Liberals tend to draw the line at the point just above their own net worth.  Its an amazing ability...  If they are worth $50,000 then they say the line should be drawn at $50,001.


Even if he sees what is happening as immoral, how can you say from his actions that he is forcing his morality upon you? Unless you had planned to win (buy) and resell tickets, or were stopped from doing so, then you have no reason whatsoever to complain. 


Buy asking his other commie liberal breathren to flood ebay with illegal bids and forcing ebay to stop listing the tickets.  I presume the Wrath of Bob would be directed at any and all resllers of tickets... thus forcing.


What's more, you never have had any room to try to call us Communists for sharing one man's thoughts.


OK then give us your take on "economic fairness."  How do you define it?  How would you remedy the supposed problem?  Lets hear what your thoughts are on capitalism?


And, for the last time, those texts paid for the lottery are incredibly insignificant. Yes, profit is made. But unlike the people who would resell the tickets to get rich quick, the phone companies are not going to suddenly boost texting costs for the Live 8 lottery just to make more money.


Get rich quick!  Selling something for $600 to $1800 makes you rich!?!  Oh, I'm sorry, you're not a commie Liberal.  My mistake.





 



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Whats a liberal?

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Touche, Surquei.


As for my sleazy Capitalist remark, some people are just bad unethical businessmen. I was making a point. Whereas with my "name calling" almost resulted in something, your small remark for my words made no point.


My mother happens to be a nurse. She does not exploit the saving of lives just to make money. She doesn't join a union so that she can always ask for more money from her bosses. Band-aids to not save lives, they cover minor wounds. Honestly, some tape and gause would do just about the same thing.


I never said it was poor people bidding on the tickets...and if Bill Gates did bid on the tickets, he would resell them to make a quick buck, which is pretty sick.


If the liberal way of thinking is the "just plain wrong" rhetoric, then I urge you to view this website and see how it is the other side: http://www.reandev.com/taliban/


I withdraw my remark about Bob and Communism completely. It was late and I was in an exceptionally angered mood.


Communism can work, it just never has. "I haven't failed 10,000 times; I've just found 10,000 ways that don't work." - Do you know who said that? Tomas Edison


I cannot be one of these line-drawing liberals who makes marks above his own salary, partially because I'm a minor, and partially because that statement is bogus and you know it.


Did you think that the "Wrath of Bob" (which I did not make) was a joke or an exxageration? What they have done on Ebay, these "commie liberal betheren", I have not heard to be illegal. They are placing bids on the tickets to keep bad men from trying to make a quick buck on something that's supposed to save lives!


Capitalism is the worst thing that interupted democracy. What happens now is that our system of governement is based upon equality and fairness, every citizen getting a vote for the President and Congressmen, state representatives, etc...and in this system of fairness, we have an economic system which is based on complete unfairness. People live in poverty on the streets of America, but also on welfare in bad homes, in tents beside highways, in shelters in big cities. Granted, some of them have just made bad decisions in their lives. But some of these people have been forced out of their jobs. Why? Because they are being shipped overseas for cheap labor. But it's all in the name of Capitalism, so at least the man can buy his jeans for a cheap price, right? That's what I like about Capitalism, cheap jeans. If sales suddenly drop on a product, then it's somebody's fault and that somebody (and possibly more people) get fired. Some of thee people end up with nothing but the clothes on their back while the company's CEO lives a good life, not giving a care about the little man. I know this. I have met some of these people. This is the nature of Capitalism, the side which most politicians and businessmen (Bush falls under both) don't want the world to see.


Economic fairness (Communism) could work in America, but it won't. Communism: A theoretical economic system characterized by the collective ownership of property and by the organization of labor for the common advantage of all members (dictionary.com). Thanks to the Cold War, when Americans think of Communism, they see this definition: The Marxist-Leninist version of Communist doctrine that advocates the overthrow of capitalism by the revolution of the proletariat (dictionary.com). They envision Vladimir Lenin killing thousands of people and saying, "This is Communism, and we'll invade America with it." That Communism obviously did not work. And because it did not work and the majority of Americans still see Communism as harsh dictatorships where life is hard, food is scare, and people are killed by the thousands, it won't work (Yes, this is the way the Communism has worked before and presently, but again, my Tomas Edison quote above). The basic idea of fairness in every aspect of life just doesn't make sense to the modern day American, thanks to biased Conservative agendas. Then these same people try to spread democracy and preach from the Holy Bible. It all seems to backwards to me while they make more money than the majority of the people, and give nothing back to help those who are less fortunate.


There is no remedy. There is no way for one person in America (especially me) to completely change our economic system. Most businessmen today are friends with lobbying politicians. If one person tried to completely change the rich peoples' way of making money, the government would probably bug them, set up cameras, and follow them around everywhere until they were found, arrested, charged, tried, and sentenced to death for treason, all for belief in equality of economy. "Ain't that America..."


"Get rich quick!  Selling something for $600 to $1800 makes you rich!?!  Oh, I'm sorry, you're not a commie Liberal.  My mistake." - I guess I just don't understand this one... 


If this is the only way to prove my point, then let it be so. I don't really care about PETA, and I'm not affiliated of supportive of most of their bizarre beliefs. But this shows Capitalism at its finest: http://www.peta2.com/takecharge/t-wetseal.asp. Watch that video and see what Capitalists do to make more money than other people.



-- Edited by meekus at 00:07, 2005-06-17

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meekus wrote:






Touche, Surquei. As for my sleazy Capitalist remark, some people are just bad unethical businessmen.




Yes, and some nurses are just bad unethical nurses. Does it mean that all hospitals and all nurses are bad and the government should prohibit medicine?



meekus wrote:






I never said it was poor people bidding on the tickets...and if Bill Gates did bid on the tickets, he would resell them to make a quick buck, which is pretty sick. 




I believe it is just the opposite. If Bill Gates did bid on the tickets he would not resell them. He does not need to - he has got a lot of money already and bidding for the tickets is a waste of his time unless he wishes to see the concert.




 




meekus wrote:

 

If the liberal way of thinking is the "just plain wrong" rhetoric, then I urge you to view this website and see how it is the other side: http://www.reandev.com/taliban/  




What this site has to do with the question we discuss? Yes, we can see from the link that you are anti-American and that you like anti-American sites. So what?



meekus wrote:






It was late and I was in an exceptionally angered mood. Communism can work, it just never has. "I haven't failed 10,000 times; I've just found 10,000 ways that don't work." - Do you know who said that? Tomas Edison




Unlike Tomas Edison's trials, each time people try Communism it cost millions of lives. How many tries we have to do, how many more millions have to be killed to prove that Communism can work?


Or may be we should try again if National Socializm can work? :)



meekus wrote:






What they have done on Ebay, these "commie liberal betheren", I have not heard to be illegal. They are placing bids on the tickets to keep bad men from trying to make a quick buck on something that's supposed to save lives!




If you did not know this is already illegal. If I go to a corner shop and start preventing people from selling news-papers claiming that they making too much money the shop keeper will probably call the police. Unless of course he suspects that you are a local bully who might organize a mob to break the shop windows.


And the concert itself does not save lives. It is not a hospital. It is just a place where people come to simply enjoy the music (at least the majority of spectators).


People who really can save African lives are the Africa's goverments who steal from their own people and who kill their own people.


And another force that can save African lives are the wealth-hording capitalists, who in pursute of extra money will ship their production from rich America and Europe to Africa. This is the only way the Africans will be able to earn money instead of waiting for rich white socialist-minded people's handouts (those Bob will collect on his concert and bully the British goverment to give out). Obvously the socialist anti-Americans do not like the idea of free trade - they can throw a bone from their table to a poor African child but they would not like to put their jobs in danger by letting African workers to compete fairly.


 



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As to your nurse and medicine ban analogy, I see it as far too exxagerated. I never said that all Capitalism should be banned, though it is a nice thought. Not all Capitalists are bad. Some (like Bob Geldof) are charitable.


Bill Gates remarks: Let's just end that bit, shall we?


The quotes on that site are doing injustice to women, homosexuals, Jews, Muslims, etc. Just because I don't care for bigots, sexists, and homophobes doesn't make me an anti-American. I was proving the Conservative ways of pushing people around that really are "just plain wrong."


Yes, and maybe we should also try Iraq again when we eventually pull out and it inevitably is taken over by another dictator...it is actually the same with Communism. People will keep trying to do it, and people will die in the process. But will people stop, and learn that the way that they go about things is wrong? No. And that is why Communism has never worked, because terrible men have tried it before. And only bad men will try to exploit the ways of a more perfect system. So perhaps, in that pessimistic philosophy, it can never work...


"If you did not know this is already illegal. If I go to a corner shop and start preventing people from selling news-papers claiming that they making too much money the shop keeper will probably call the police. Unless of course he suspects that you are a local bully who might organize a mob to break the shop windows." - Your quote. It is the way that he is preventing people from doing it that keeps it legal. He bids on them for a high price to keep others from buying them. It's funny. The same system of Capitalism you support so much is being used to keep a noble cause noble. But what do you do? You bite the hand that not only feeds you, but also the hand that you trust and support.


The events are trying to raise international awareness for "Africa's goverments who steal from their own people and who kill their own people." These are the same people who make the economies go bad, and then people begin to slowly suffer and die out. The people who attend and watch the concerts support the aid that should (and will) be granted to suffering citizens by the G8 members.


And how in any way can an African worker actually compete with a worker from America or Europe in today's - or the last generation's - world? You'd look at a man in America in a suit and tie with a college degree and fine family. Then you'd look at an African man, wearing his best (only) outfit of rags, and knowledge of the job that he's only picked up along the way, with starving children and a dead wife.


Which one will make you more money? That's the one you'd hire.


Free trade is already happening. But these people can't be a part of it because businesses have more profit potential with a man that has the knowledge and personality and family and just the right clothes to get the job done effectively and professionally.


And how come with almost every "socialist" and "Communist" and other adjectives, you joined on "anti-American"? I live in America. I love America. I don't often like what it does, but I'm free (to do most things) and I'm safe (except for North Korea, living in Hawaii and all). But I suppose it's the way a parent loves a child. You love the child with love and care, and watch over it as it moves on. But there are some things that he does that you don't like. Still, you love him.


And just to add: I had a video clip at the end of my last post, showing the dark nature that Capitalism (secretly?) supports. Did you watch it? I suppose not. Still, here's the link again. I do not agree with everything that PETA says, but this really had me buggered. http://www.peta2.com/takecharge/t-wetseal.asp


This happens for people to make money. "Hooray for Capitalism!" It's sickening sometimes...



-- Edited by meekus at 10:06, 2005-06-17

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