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Tonight

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If You Question The Validity Of Live 8...
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...then why do you even come to this forum?


I do not understand how so many people can be against the event, the protest in Edinburgh, the selection of artists to perform, etc...and while I do respect a person's right to opinions, I can not comprehend the problems that people have with Bob's decisions.


If you have them, dispense of them here; from there, I'll try to straighten you out. But please don't flood me...



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Tonight

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Well!! No umbrella, no rowboat required so far! Meekus, I totally agree with you, but am also hoping for some replies...Hmmm...where are they??

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Tonight

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Wow. I guess no one has a negative opinion anymore. Right on!

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The biggest Geldof fan in the world, bar none!

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The best way to make something totally unacceptable is to raise awareness and get as many people to know about it as possible. And the best way to do that these days is through music, so therefore Live8 is very valid. It isn't the answer to Africa's problems and nobody ever said it is, but it goes a long way.

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Tonight

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Did you see Sir Bob at Glastonbury? He was great!!

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Banana Republic

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You forgot;


Educated and realistic professional



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Lookin' After Number 1

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I've got to make the following point, the fact that this whole G8 protest is ill thought out and likely to be a disorganised mess. However we mustn't forget the good that can come out of it. Just think of all those fading rock stars who's careers will receive a much needed boost or those who have spent months embroiled in defending criminal charges who now will be able to portray themselves in a positive light We must do everything we can to conserve these endangered species lest they disappear forever. What's a multi-million pound security and clean-up bill compared to the benefits we will receive.



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Tonight

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What is your basis for it being an unorganized mess? Try to be a little more specific, please.


How can you say, "Just think of all those fading rock stars who's careers will receive a much needed boost or those who have spent months embroiled in defending criminal charges who now will be able to portray themselves in a positive light"? That's not what it's about - for most acts. I do not understand why acts as Jay-Z and Deep Purple are performing. You may be right, but I like to think that these fading stars and people with rough pasts are just doing what they do best, sing a play. What is their benefit? Exposure, yes. New fame, yes. A new crowd, yes. More fans, yes. More support, yes. A better image? Of course. But are those the reasons why they are doing it? I hope not. Try to hope for some decency in entertainment and common good of mankind instead of Capitalistic greed and an ego boost.


Your words seem (are?) conceited. "What's a multi-million pound security and clean-up bill compared to the benefits we will receive." When was it ever about us? It has always been about those suffering. The event is to help those. You will receive no tangible benefit. But if you do not feel the warmth inside from helping a starved and war-trodden continent, then you should stay away from the events all-together. It is not about helping you, but you can help. "Ask not what [the people] can do for you, but what you can do for [the people]." Try to give without receiving. It's called charity. And if you expect yourself to pay millions of pounds for the event, then I'd like to review your math paper. You will pay a fraction of the cost. If you don't live in Edinburg, then you have no right to complain at all. If you do, think of it as charity to a greater cause rather than a hefty expense from rowdy protesters.



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Lookin' After Number 1

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"Try to hope for some decency in entertainment and common good of mankind instead of Capitalistic greed and an ego boost."

These paragons show their concern by arguing over who opens and closes the concert, and state that (quote) "I will seriously consider my position" if they don't get their own way. What's that all about if not blatant self interest, but then what should we expect from someone who's overriding interest in the past has been about who's name comes first in the song writer's credits.




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House on Fire

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Help! How would you categorise a fair-trade environmentalist?  I'm leaning towards Independent but I'm concerned that it's position between left and right means it's intended for middle of the roaders so I just don't know...


After viewing the Channel 4 programme about AIDS in Zambia the other day, all this 'make poverty history' seems trivial.  The people shown in that programme are KNOWINGLY screwing each other with HIV.  If this is common throughout Africa, then I would suggest that - within 25 years - there may be more people of African descent living in London than Africans in the whole of Africa.   And it would actually be counter-productive to give out ARV drugs since that would only mean that more people could infect more people for longer.


Do I question the validity of Live 8?  Well, I see it being ultimately about respect for others and respect for the environment in which we all have to survive.  Geldof and crew are taking people on a journey of discovery from famine-relief (1984/1985), through the causes of famine, including poverty, to the causes of poverty, including unfair trade and corruption (now).  It's a long journey and there is a long way still to go - like the causes of unfair trade and corruption - and I worry that our society will not be able to make it before we hit the ecological buffers.  Particularly when big business prevents the US from even acknowledging that there is a problem ahead and China and India are industrialising like there is, literally, no tomorrow.


Perhaps the worried inhabitants of Edinburgh would like to chew on that particular bone... 



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Banana Republic

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Did you not see the programme about Live Aid (I think it was a few Saturdays ago) which clearly highlighted how totally and utterly disorganised the event had been with Bob bullsh*tting to most of the artists involved to get them on board. Even U2 were on the verge of pulling out THE NIGHT BEFORE!


So yes, I think Longy might have a point. Given another 6 months, concerts in every continent could have been organised (Australia is getting a major raw deal with only Foxtel showing it - pay for view TV that according to an Australian that e-mails me is available to only 6% of the Australian population). All the major TV networks could have been contacted to show the concert(s). These concerts should have been organised as soon as the G8 was announced.


The fading pop and rock stars will profit from the concerts and some might give the money they earn to charity but others will pocket the profits and smile all the way to the bank (or tropical island they have booked for some RnR). Greed is rife among the rich and famous..even Bob noted that in his programme about the Congo - the richer the countries wealth (gold, diamonds etc) the poorer the people...


Corruption inside the African nations needs to be tackled before any more money is poured into the back pockets of warlords / dictators / officials. And while I, like you would love to see a fair playing field for all countries (fair trade for Africa etc) I am not niave enough to think that 8 men in a posh hotel in the Perth countryside will make Africa the country it deserves to be. The African people also need to take and stand - to say they won't accept the money that should be theirs is lining their OWN select few pockets. Mugabe is riding rough shot over his own people. His wife squanders the country's wealth on her shopping trips to Cape Town (where she books the entire top floor of the Table Bay Hotel). Where is the concern about the people that are being made homeless there? But of course, there is no natural oil or gas in the country (other than coming from Mugabe's mouth). Nothing worth invading for...


Is it right, no of course not but it's all down to basic human behaviour - survival of the fittest.



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Mary of the 4th Form

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Bob's lost the plot

Bob Geldof's belief that poverty in Africa can be eliminated by the West "doubling aid, cancelling debt and delivering trade justice", is, to say the least, misguided.

Here in Zimbabwe, Robert Mugabe and his party have ruined this country, creating poverty despite Western aid and investment. In recent weeks, he has waged war on the poor, destroying the livelihoods of hundreds of thousands of people and demolishing their houses, leaving them to fend for themselves in the middle of winter.

The African Union and leaders of other African refuse to condemn this action.

Unless Bob Geldof and his colleagues wake up to the fact that much of Africa's poverty is self-created, and unless pressure is put on African leaders to act against rogue states, nothing will change.

He should use this opportunity to condemn African tyrants, not blame the West.

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Banana Republic

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Agree wholeheartedly..


Tackle the corruption first then provide aid to those who really need it...


Protesting in Edinburgh will not (or ever will) solve Africa's problems - no matter how many protesters there are!


 



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kia


She's So Modern

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How are you going to get rid off corruption?


Need to educate people and stand up for their right?


to do that they must live and past age 5 ... NOW you get how  important is aid . I do not just mean money ; medical and technology plays an imprtant role.


<<<WHAT MONEY DOES IS IMPORTANT>>>


I hope that shows how important it is to encourage medical and industrial companies to help africa.


kia



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Mary of the 4th Form

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At independence, Zimbabwe was the largest producer and exporter of tobacco, cotton, beef and white maize in Africa. We also exported sugar, coffee, timber, tea and a number of other products. We had the highest percentage contribution of manufacturing to GDP in Africa, indicating a relatively sophisticated economy.

Now we have the fastest declining economy in the world. We can barely produce a third to half of what the country needs to feed itself.

Yesterday, fuel prices went up nearly 300 per cent. Yes, that's 300. But there's hardly any foreign currency available to import fuel anyway.

A few months ago, the government took delivery of four jet fighters from China as part of an arms deal worth US$240 million. Mugabe is planning to spend about US$2 million on his 10 weeding anniversary celebrations.

Don't talk to me about aid.

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Banana Republic

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Zimroger,


Unlike the vast majority of those on this forum, you seen to have direct knowledge of Africa and the plight of its people and can therefore "tell it like it is". The money never gets near the poor people.. it goes straight to the educated few in charge (many ironically educated in the UK at Oxford / Cambridge etc). They are the ones who make the choices for "their people". In many instances they decide to buy guns or build luxury houses rather than give it to those that are actually in need. They couldn't give a monkeys about a bunch of suits meeting in a hotel in Scotland never mind the concerts being held. As long as it doesn't affect their personal wealth then so what...they haven't been invited so how can these people decide what's best for "my country". They won't suddenly change because they've caught the BBC channel on their 50" screen (with nicam stereo) broadcasting the concert and suddenly think about having a change of heart!


The general population though aren't as fortunate...most have no idea what's happening in the next village never mind elsewhere in the world - not because they are ignorant but because the money for their education is buying a couple of pairs of Malanos or a new rifle / rocket launcher instead...


On a personal note, I'm heading to Cape Town in a couple of months and if I see Mugabe's wife I'll be sure to tell her not to spend so much (and yes, I am being sarcastic - it's that Scottish humour again!)



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Mary of the 4th Form

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Yes, Alison - I'm a Zimbabwe citizen and live in Harare. I've lived though a time when a country that had everything going for it has been completely impoverished by its own government. Blaming the demise of Zimbabwe on inadequate aid is complete nonsense.

Our state-controlled daily newspaper (the government has shut down the independent ones) is now even blaming the West for doctoring the weather in Southern Africa!!



Extract:

"It comes as no surprise, therefore, that speculation is pointing to the
prospect of the weather being doctored to induce drought conditions across
Southern Africa in a bid to arm-twist the region to capitulate to the whims
of the world's superpowers.

Those countries that submit to the caprices of the westerners automatically
receive the seal of approval as "democratic" nations which qualifies them to
get massive aid support and debt cancellation.

With Zimbabwe fast emerging as the possible epicentre of the furtive weather
modification programme that is meant to break its agricultural backbone; the
world could be entering a new phase of cyber imperialism.

The overt and covert machinations by Zimbabwe's former colonial ruler
Britain, which has declared its intentions to effect illegal regime change
in Harare, have given credence to the conspiracy theory.

The Government of Zimbabwe already stands accused of starving its own people
by implementing the land reform programme, an insinuation that presupposes
that without white commercial farmers, Zimbabweans are not capable of
feeding themselves.

Most of the new farmers who have been showered with inputs since the
agrarian reform programme began in 2000 have failed to harvest meaningful
yields due to sudden changes in weather patterns which weathermen have
blamed on nature.

However, the evidence on the ground suggests otherwise."

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Tonight

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No one has ever blamed inadequate aid as the problem with nations such as Zimbabwe...have they?

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Mary of the 4th Form

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meekus wrote:

No one has ever blamed inadequate aid as the problem with nations such as Zimbabwe...have they?



Zimbabwe is part of Africa. I have only heard "Africa" used by Bob Geldof et al. No one (except Western governments) seems to distinguish between different countries in Africa when they talk about cancelling debt and doubling aid. The "protesters" certainly don't.

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Tonight

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Corruption is a major problem that the G8 leaders had better address pronto or more people will needlessly suffer. Otherwise, the efforts are wasted.

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Banana Republic

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Agreed!

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