Boomtown Rats Teachers Pet SCTV 1982-Elephants Graveyard

noelindublin · Loudmouth

Boomtown Rats Teachers Pet SCTV 1982-Elephants Graveyard

suss · In the Long Grass

noelindublin wrote:
It all comes across as a bit silly but interesthing nontheless.
-- Edited by noelindublin on Wednesday 30th of March 2011 01:44:48 PM

Noel,

Just had a look and summary above is spot on. Brought back many memories of how the Rats were just too uncool by then for many of the early fans to persevere, and on that sort of evidence it's very difficult to argue.

I quite enjoyed being in a minority (of one?) amongst schoolmates and being perverse in the face of Jam fans in particular, but wasn't too blind to realise the Rats were dangerously naff at times, which played straight into the hands of NME and the like.

I like to think Bob, the band and most importantly we all knew it was the Rats lack of insecurity that allowed them to laugh in the face of the uber cool but, let's face it, it was commercial suicide in many ways.

do the rat · Never In A Million Years

disbelief I`ve just googled the elephants graveyard video.

It`s the first time i`ve seen this and proves that the rats didn`t take themselves too seriously.

P.S . Isn`t that eugene levy from AMERICAN PIE fame in the video?. blankstare

suss · In the Long Grass

do the rat wrote:
P.S . Isn`t that eugene levy from AMERICAN PIE fame in the video?.

That's a very impressive spot, backed up by http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0506405/

He looks older in this video than he does in the film which is more than 15 years later?!

For anyone who couldn't be bothered to google the SCTV Rats clip is at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2ta5OgjQ8Q

Thanks to Noel for tracking down these unusual clips.

noelindublin · Loudmouth

suss wrote:
noelindublin wrote:
It all comes across as a bit silly but interesthing nontheless.
-- Edited by noelindublin on Wednesday 30th of March 2011 01:44:48 PM
Noel,
Just had a look and summary above is spot on. Brought back many memories of how the Rats were just too uncool by then for many of the early fans to persevere, and on that sort of evidence it's very difficult to argue.
I quite enjoyed being in a minority (of one?) amongst schoolmates and being perverse in the face of Jam fans in particular, but wasn't too blind to realise the Rats were dangerously naff at times, which played straight into the hands of NME and the like.
I like to think Bob, the band and most importantly we all knew it was the Rats lack of insecurity that allowed them to laugh in the face of the uber cool but, let's face it, it was commercial suicide in many ways.

First of all welcome back Suss from your period of living in the real world- back to the virtual world of the Internet and its dark ways.

I think in that video the band was enjoying being pop stars- perhaps a bit drunk of fame- maybe in their own little bubble especially Bob Geldof. I think the songs should speak for themselves first of all. The Elephants Graveyard is a really great piece of music-this tv performance might be a bit silly but its mainly high jinks. Think- you're young and in a successful rock band and you may know in the back of your head that it may not last.

When Bob sings in Never In a Million Years - " I know I'd never let/ those self defeating fears spoil these golden years/ these days that pass us by/ so slow.... this footage encapsulates those golden years. I'm sure it did go to their heads but you only get on stab at it in the music business.

I suppose coolness is in the eye of the beholder. The pop performances on tv sometimes were a bit at odds with the subject matter eg Banana Republic, Elephants Graveyard but not sure how this is perceived as being "naff". Geldof was as well read as any of the NME journalists- three of the Rats had dropped out of Bolton Street Architecture College- so were are not dealing with idiots. Paul Weller was very balanced- he had a chip on both shoulders. Don't think he liked Geldof very much. I speak as someone who generally likes the Jam and bought all their albums and liked their sound and attitude.Still do.

Not sure what is naff about songs like Skin On Skin, Europe Looked Ugly, Elephants Graveyard,Straight Up in the case for the defence. Pop music is rife with petty or otherwise jealousies but that's part of the fun. All those new wave bands were generally in the same ballpark- musically and intellectually- and they all had their own distinct personality. The fact that the BoomtownRats or XTC appealed more to me, than say, the Clash may be a matter of "luck" in what initially appealed to me than any scientific analysis or judgement.

suss · In the Long Grass

Cheers Noel - good to be back.

Agree with all your comments above, particularly about the obvious intelligence of the band and their songs/lyrics, but would still maintain that their willingness to do lighthearted videos like this one, poster shoots for Jackie / Look In etc, wear pyjamas and generally not take themselves too seriously probably lost them more fans than it gained, certainly amongst the image conscious.

Didn't mean to imply that any of the songs themselves were naff; musically and lyrically they would hold their own with anything of the time (and since!) but it was the Rats image that took a hammering as people realised that what they had always said about not being sneering angry punks was in fact the truth. It's to their eternal credit, in my view, that they didn't pander to the press or the desired image and if anything defied them.

My point was more that the perception of the band, especially in the 'serious' music press, was that they were lightweight and simply not cool, and it's no coincidence this kicked even as Mondays topped the charts and every teen magazine and TV show went into Geldof overload. The journos just couldn't wait to knock them off their perch and, regardless of the quality/subject matter of the actual songs, the band just gave them more ammo by knocking out "fun" videos like this, completely at odds with the song content.

Incidentally I was also a big fan of the Jam and the Clash, and to a lesser extent XTC, and never let Weller or Strummer's apparent disdain of Bob influence me.

I'm sure it was the Rats' refusal to let the press or anyone else influence them that appealed to me, backed up by a magnificent catalogue of songs of course biggrin

Lisa · Mondo Bongo

I loved getting posters of them from Jackie!! Have just got a DVD of them: "1976-1986: Someone's Looking At You" and there is some really good stuff of them - live footage plus some promo videos, some better than others! Can't believe that at the time I only had eyes for Bob and didn't notice how hunky the rest of them were, particularly Simon and Garry of course! Sorry to be shallow

Also liked the Jam, the Clash and the Stranglers. Remember arguing with school mates about who was better - the Rats or the Police. Eventually we all agreed we liked both, but obviously had our personal favourites!

I did keep a scrapbook of all the articles/interviews with them from the teenage mags - but sadly got rid of it when I left home many years ago

Really wish I hadn't!

noelindublin · Loudmouth

As regards this particular tv excerpt and probably lots of others as well, the band most likely walked into a setup that they had little control over. Maybe they were told or directed to perform the song amidst the slight chaos and confusion of the SCTV episode -hence the very mixed if slightly amusing results.

More to the point did any American kids become Rats converts on seeing this? Wonder was there a music series in the States like Later with Jools or The Old Grey Whistle Test which might have suited them better, rather than turning up on a programme for kids?

They probably needed to choose their appearances more carefully, rather than turning up willy nilly on any old programme so that may be down to management.

noelindublin · Loudmouth

Lisa wrote:
I loved getting posters of them from Jackie!! Have just got a DVD of them: "1976-1986: Someone's Looking At You" and there is some really good stuff of them - live footage plus some promo videos, some better than others! Can't believe that at the time I only had eyes for Bob and didn't notice how hunky the rest of them were, particularly Simon and Garry of course! Sorry to be shallow

Also liked the Jam, the Clash and the Stranglers. Remember arguing with school mates about who was better - the Rats or the Police. Eventually we all agreed we liked both, but obviously had our personal favourites!

I did keep a scrapbook of all the articles/interviews with them from the teenage mags - but sadly got rid of it when I left home many years ago Really wish I hadn't!

Hope you enjoy the Rats 1976-1986 video Lisa. There's loads of goodies on it. Make sure you go into the extras menu as its got some rare items. Also the full concert from the Domininion Threatre, Tottenham Ct Rd in 1985 is on the extras- in front of a packed house!

One of the extras in the band arriving at Dublin airport before they were prevented from playing in Ireland by a High Court case. Geldof holds a news conference and lays into the Irish state- then tells how the band had no trouble playing in Northern Ireland a few days earlier- amidst the dark days of the "troubles". The line in Banana Republic about being "Glad to see the place again/ it's a pity nothings changed..." stems from this time and visit back to Ireland in May 1980.

So much stuff has turned up on youtube in the few years since the DVD came out to fill another few DVD's- and there's probably more footage lurking in various vaults and attics waiting to surprise us.

Lisa · Mondo Bongo

Yes, am really enjoying the DVD - there are a lot of videos that I hadn't seen before. Good to see Diamond Smiles again - they seemed to have had a big budget for that one! Rat Trap and Like Clockwork obviously brilliant too. There is some footage of early stuff, from their first album which is great to see. Watched the Dublin news clip yesterday whilst ironing (needed something interesting to watch to alleviate the boredom!) and don't remember having seen it before though was aware they had trouble playing there - so interesting to see a bit of history too. Joking aside, it is good to see how much input the rest of the band had in the videos as it all did seem to focus at times on Bob - though aged 13 I didn't mind. But now, I do regret not having rated the others so highly at the time.

Mark L · Loudmouth

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=afC98YWGMwg

Cleaner version of Graveyard has now surfaced on You Tube, with Million Years and checked shirts included at around 9:45.

noelindublin · Loudmouth

Mark L wrote:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=afC98YWGMwg
Cleaner version of Graveyard has now surfaced on You Tube, with Million Years and checked shirts included at around 9:45.

love the way Bob wags his finger in Million Years.

-- Edited by noelindublin on Tuesday 20th of January 2015 02:31:03 PM

diffbrook · House on Fire

Do people think that the Rats career would have lasted longer, if they portrayed a cool image, rather than 6 lads enjoying fame (whilst it lasted). I must admit the joking around did mask some serious comments made in Geldofs songs.

Maybe they would have secured a larger core fanbase which may have been more loyal, than the one they had. I was surprised to learn that Someones looking at you entered the chart at 44. A Jam single would have entered close if not in top ten.

Perhaps the Rats core fanbase was always small. Its not a far leap to Never in a Million years that entered at 65 and dropped out. in 1981 Boomtown Rats were not darlings of Jackie or Smash hits and so there singles being bought by their small core support entered lower in the chart and dropped out due to no further exposure. The Jam or Police with their larger core support survived Pops everchanging styles.

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

diffbrook wrote:
Do people think that the Rats career would have lasted longer, if they portrayed a cool image, rather than 6 lads enjoying fame (whilst it lasted). I must admit the joking around did mask some serious comments made in Geldofs songs.

Maybe they would have secured a larger core fanbase which may have been more loyal, than the one they had. I was surprised to learn that Someones looking at you entered the chart at 44. A Jam single would have entered close if not in top ten.

Perhaps the Rats core fanbase was always small. Its not a far leap to Never in a Million years that entered at 65 and dropped out. in 1981 Boomtown Rats were not darlings of Jackie or Smash hits and so there singles being bought by their small core support entered lower in the chart and dropped out due to no further exposure. The Jam or Police with their larger core support survived Pops everchanging styles.

No. I think they were pretty cool up to Banana Republic and weren't out of kilter with their contemporaries. Even when you consider their TV appearances and videos, none up to and including Banana Republic were that bad. Rat Trap on TOTP, The Mondays video, the Someone's Looking on Kenny Everett and Banana Republic are all fine. Throw in their Revolver appearance and the Rock Goes to College appearance and for the vast majority of the public they were little different from others.

They had a large fan base in the wake of Mondays, but blew it to some degree with a over produced Surfacing (I have yet to meet any non-Rats fan who thinks much of it) before the less than commercial Mondo Bongo put the tin lid on it. Some of us stuck with it, but many moved onto Adam and The Ants, Duran Duran and Spandau Ballet (none of whom I would consider in the slightest cool).

There is a lot of fiction about The Jam. Up until Eton Rifles they never had a top ten hit, with quite a number just creeping into the top 20. Only with Going Underground did they start to enter high, and that was in March 1980. And as for uncool, some of their early TOTP performances were cringe-worthy, Eton Rifles with The Libertine lookalikes being a real low. Also it is worth remembering that Polydor had a policy of releasing singles the day after the last chart was compiled to maximise first week sales (hence Slade's straight in at #1). Most record companies preferred to put the record up for a day or two, to get on TOTP and then maximise sales on the back of that. Mondays entered at #15 so a new entry at #44 wasn't that bad.

Also neither The Jam nor The Police (whose videos were absolute toilet ergo De Doo Doo Dah, how uncool was that?) had a longer career than the Rats. Jam 6 LPs and Police just 5. Others like the Pistols had 1, Blondie 6 and the Clash had 6 (even if two were multi disc, Cut The Crap should be disregarded). Personally, I wish the Rats had been more like The Stranglers who kept making records (17 LPs and counting). I doubt they were ever considered cool, they just kept going.

Personally, I think had Mondo Bongo been a better LP then maybe they may have gone on to bigger and better things, but in many ways, it was probably best it finished then. Imagine if Deep in the Heart of Nowhere had been a Rats LP. Would have made Cut The Crap sound like a masterpiece.

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

forgot to add, had The Police never turfed up then maybe The Rats wouldn't have filled Surfacing with those daft reggae drum breaks. Still fcuking amazes me that three blond guys became successful doing faux reggae. Elvis Costello was right. "Somebody should clip Sting around the head and tell him to stop using that ridiculous Jamaican accent."

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

After writing all that, I chanced upon reviews and extracts of Bob Stanleys (of St. Etienne) book, Yeah Yeah Yeah: The Story of Modern Pop. Pretty scathing of the Rats in parts, but makes the same point that acts have to display an elusive cool factor because, even if theyre masterful tunesmiths, some can still be resolutely unlovable. St. Etienne were cool? Only for having Pulp as their support act.

Anyways, I have always liked uncool bands from Sweet to Razorlight. Fcuk being cool, it just means you can only listen to about 0.001% of all the music ever made.

Ho hum - only two more hours for my flight back to London

noelindublin · Loudmouth

ArrGee wrote:
After writing all that, I chanced upon reviews and extracts of Bob Stanleys (of St. Etienne) book, Yeah Yeah Yeah: The Story of Modern Pop. Pretty scathing of the Rats in parts, but makes the same point that acts have to display an elusive cool factor because, even if theyre masterful tunesmiths, some can still be resolutely unlovable. St. Etienne were cool? Only for having Pulp as their support act.

Anyways, I have always liked uncool bands from Sweet to Razorlight. Fcuk being cool, it just means you can only listen to about 0.001% of all the music ever made.

Ho hum - only two more hours for my flight back to London

I'm, currently reading a book called How Soon Is Now by Richard Hill. Its the story of independent music in Britain from 1975-2005. Very good is is too. Only mention of

Geldof is some guy from one of the indie labels saying the Phonogram offices were always 'full of headcases......like Bob Geldof,,,,,,,(and a few others )

Interesting stuff about Pulp and Libertines and Alan Magee.

noelindublin · Loudmouth

ArrGee wrote:
After writing all that, I chanced upon reviews and extracts of Bob Stanleys (of St. Etienne) book, Yeah Yeah Yeah: The Story of Modern Pop. Pretty scathing of the Rats in parts, but makes the same point that acts have to display an elusive cool factor because, even if theyre masterful tunesmiths, some can still be resolutely unlovable. St. Etienne were cool? Only for having Pulp as their support act.

Anyways, I have always liked uncool bands from Sweet to Razorlight. Fcuk being cool, it just means you can only listen to about 0.001% of all the music ever made.

Ho hum - only two more hours for my flight back to London

Geldofs great two fingers to the critics, just after Roundhouse gig.

-- Edited by noelindublin on Friday 23rd of January 2015 08:14:30 PM

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

noelindublin wrote:

Geldofs great two fingers to the critics, just after Roundhouse gig.

I really like that video. Interesting that there is such good quality footage out there. I wonder if they could make a film of the last couple of years?

noelindublin · Loudmouth

ArrGee wrote:
noelindublin wrote:

Geldofs great two fingers to the critics, just after Roundhouse gig.

I really like that video. Interesting that there is such good quality footage out there. I wonder if they could make a film of the last couple of years?

Somebody should make a documentary about the Rats reforming. And I wasn't dreaming. Bob introduces the Rats as 'the best rock n roll band in the world (from Dun laoghaire) smile A few good close ups of Gerry Cott on stage too. I was about half way back in the crowd so you kind of miss the full impact/realisation of having 5 of the 6 original members on stage. Still holding out for a 40th anniversary gig in Dublin in October.

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

noelindublin wrote:
... a 40th anniversary gig in Dublin in October.

I wonder if they would play Dublin or London. Dublin would be more apt, but I suspect that with London being home to Geldof and Briquette these days, it is more likely. Pulp only played once in Sheffield on their recent break from their hiatus whilst they played London four times.

Halloween is on a Saturday night. Can't do Hammersmith Odeon (now Eventim Apollo) for old times sake as it is already booked. Guess they can do The Roundhouse again.

noelindublin · Loudmouth

noelindublin wrote:
ArrGee wrote:
After writing all that, I chanced upon reviews and extracts of Bob Stanleys (of St. Etienne) book, Yeah Yeah Yeah: The Story of Modern Pop. Pretty scathing of the Rats in parts, but makes the same point that acts have to display an elusive cool factor because, even if theyre masterful tunesmiths, some can still be resolutely unlovable. St. Etienne were cool? Only for having Pulp as their support act.

Anyways, I have always liked uncool bands from Sweet to Razorlight. Fcuk being cool, it just means you can only listen to about 0.001% of all the music ever made.

Ho hum - only two more hours for my flight back to London
I'm, currently reading a book called How Soon Is Now by Richard Hill. Its the story of independent music in Britain from 1975-2005. Very good is is too. Only mention of
Geldof is some guy from one of the indie labels saying the Phonogram offices were always 'full of headcases......like Bob Geldof,,,,,,,(and a few others )
Interesting stuff about Pulp and Libertines and Alan Magee.

Sorry, How Soon Is Now was written by Richard King, not Richard Hill. It was Sunday Times Music Book of 2012. Some guy at one of the record labels cAme up with the phrase 'indie landfill' to describe all the rubbish indie music that was around. Think I might start borrowing that one. smile

Also amusing description of the Jesus and Mary Chain demos as 'sounding like cats being kidnapped....' smile

noelindublin · Loudmouth

ArrGee wrote:
noelindublin wrote:
... a 40th anniversary gig in Dublin in October.
I wonder if they would play Dublin or London. Dublin would be more apt, but I suspect that with London being home to Geldof and Briquette these days, it is more likely. Pulp only played once in Sheffield on their recent break from their hiatus whilst they played London four times.
Halloween is on a Saturday night. Can't do Hammersmith Odeon (now Eventim Apollo) for old times sake as it is already booked. Guess they can do The Roundhouse again.

They could easily enough carry off a full Tonic For The Troops album performance. Might get the crowd that just rates Tonic. Even the novelty of playing all the ATFTT tracks gives things a slightly different take.Surely the album is iconic enough to give it a try. But then would people feel short changed by just ten songs? A few of the Tonic b sides might bring it up to 12/13 songs.

Lots of bands like The Stooges, Belle and Sebastion have done it recently.

http://www.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2012/feb/29/indie-professor-perform-albums-live

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

noelindublin wrote:
They could easily enough carry off a full Tonic For The Troops album performance. Might get the crowd that just rates Tonic. Even the novelty of playing all the ATFTT tracks gives things a slightly different take.Surely the album is iconic enough to give it a try. But then would people feel short changed by just ten songs? A few of the Tonic b sides might bring it up to 12/13 songs.

Half the tracks on the album haven't been played in the last two/six/thirty-six years and I doubt they will be again. Maybe a chance of Don't Believe What You Read, Blind Drunk(sic) and Living In an Island. Normal People as far as I know was only ever performed live at the BBC whilst I don't know if Can't Stop was ever played live.

Arguably, Do The Rat, Joey and Mary could all be considered Tonic era songs (two of them on the US version) along with the B-sides and DUN LAOGHAIRE which makes for a pretty long set. So it wouldn't be an issue with songs per se, but I can't imagine people being too happy if Mondays wasn't played.

For a big 40th anniversary gig, it should be all the singles from #1 to Elephant's Graveyard plus the choice cuts like Eva Braun, Howard Hughes, Joey and Neon Heart. Cork set is probably the best example from last couple of years.

http://www.setlist.fm/setlist/the-boomtown-rats/2013/live-at-the-marquee-cork-ireland-43c6b717.html