Elephant's Graveyard

robertchao · Mary of the 4th Form

Elephant's Graveyard

Tango · In the Long Grass

the video is awesome.i particularly like the cheesy metaphor thing were simon crowe holds up a saw when the lyrics go 'thats what we all saw'.its so cheesy its funny

Mark Boyle · House on Fire

The song "The Elephant's Graveyard" is about Bob's comment on the Florida riots in 1980.

Florida is where many rich Americans retire to, with nothing to do all day but soak up the sun, get all narcissitic & concerned with getting fit & healthy after a lifetime of slobbery (at a time in life when its just about too late!), waste their days at the Golf links, & turn into the most stereotypical gung-ho, kill-all-foreigners-&-poor-people Republicans.

In legend, elephants that know they are about to die leave the herd & start heading to the elephant's graveyard (a folk tale explanation of the natural instinct of animals to slip away somewhere quiet when they know they are about to die). Thus this is America's "Elephant's Graveyard" - it's the place where people go to waste the remaining years of their life away.

Back in 1980, during the Boomtown Rats tour, there were race related riots in Florida, some rather heavy handed policing c/o the National Guard. The cases that went to court were just a touch one-sided, the prosecution lawyer's familiarity with the supposedly impartial judge going to the extent she referred to him as "sweetie" during the trial - those who were the defendents were very much "Guilty until proven guilty."

franna · V Deep

Mark Boyle wrote:

The song "The Elephant's Graveyard" is about Bob's comment on the Florida riots in 1980. Florida is where many rich Americans retire to, with nothing to do all day but soak up the sun, get all narcissitic & concerned with getting fit & healthy after a lifetime of slobbery (at a time in life when its just about too late!), waste their days at the Golf links, & turn into the most stereotypical gung-ho, kill-all-foreigners-&-poor-people Republicans.

That's absurd. Florida is where many Americans (and Canadians) go to retire, regardless of class and economics. Florida is ALWAYS WARM. Much of the country gets pretty damned COLD in the winter. When folks get to be in their 80s or so, lots of them just don't want to freeze their asses off and shovel snow for months at a time.

Sure, rich Florida retirees may hang out at the golf course and try to get fit and heathy, but middle or lower class retirees won't be at the golf course (and I don't know about the fit and healthy part either), and there are tons of them (the non-rich) as well. If you take a look at Bush v Gore, you will notice that Florida retirees are hardly a solid Republican block.

You mention race riots. Surely you're not suggesting that Florida's Black community consists of rich, retired Republicans?

Sometimes, like now, it seems as if the images portrayed overseas are radically twisted away from the truth.

By the way, Arizona is a big retirement state as well. (They're probably West Coast retirees, while Florida is where the East Coast goes to retire.)

Just about EVERY New Yorker's grandparents eventually end up in Florida. I know mine did, and they certainly didn't fit your description.

Mark Boyle · House on Fire

Franna, that was what the song was about - period. Geldof was painting things as he saw them. Miami May 1980 the dateline, the riots sparked off by four police officers being acquitted of beating black businessman Arthur McDuffie to death. 18 people were killed during the riots & damages was estimated as being just over $50 million.

Clarence Jones was to produce a famous documentary about the incidents called "The Billion Dollar Ghetto" as Americans wondered how on earth an area that had received $1 billion in aid from the US Treasury after the 1968 riots would then be responsible for what was at that time the worst rioting in US history. Yes, you guessed it, little of the money went to making things better for the people there & went on "admin"...

franna · V Deep

Admittedly I'm not familiar with the track, nor do I remember what went on in 1980, nor do I have much faith in the accuracy of Bob's descriptions or understanding of things American...so, OK, that's what the song is about. It still paints an inaccurate picture of the state. It might paint a relatively accurate picture of a particular TOWN in the state, or a particular INCIDENT, but not the entire state.

And if it was Miami....in 1980, Miami wasn't yet hip, cool and expensive. It didn't start to revitalize for another few years. In 1980, Miami Beach (technically, a barrier island in the Atlantic) was, if I remember correctly, decaying and primarily occupied by aging working - middle class retirees, while the City of Miami (part of the mainland, connected via bridge) was primarily a pit of Black and Hispanic poverty. There may have been small wealthy pockets in the general area, but not many.

The historically wealthy area is Palm Beach (another barrier island) about 90 minutes north. If you want polo and golf in your retirement, that's where you'd go. Then as well as now. And you'd better have the cash.

Edited to add: This is what I'd consider a reliable account of what happened: http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/photos/4069371.htm

I'd say the incident has A LOT more to do with longstanding racial tension in this country than ANYTHING to do with retirees (wealthy or not). And I've just read the lyrics, which I see as commenting on the situation from a distance (as I'd expected), and also having nothing really to do with wealthy people retiring to Florida so they can play golf and try to be healthy when it's already too late, or turning into gung-ho anti-poor, pro-Republican militants. I think those must be your own misconceptions.

I've always found Bob's political commentary most effective when it's directed at Ireland, or the EU. Write what you KNOW.

-- Edited by franna at 16:25, 2005-10-15

Jules · The biggest Geldof fan in the world, bar none!

Fran it was the ageing middle-class people (I think women in particular) that Bob was referring to - the blue rinse bigrade, with their judgemental narrow minded opinions. They'd hang before they tried so to speak. I've no idea personally, as I've never been anywhere in that area.

Mark Boyle · House on Fire

Er, Fran, haven't you just contradicted yourself there?

"Admittedly I'm not familiar with the track, nor do I remember what went on in 1980..."

& then going on to say "This is what I'd consider a reliable account of what happened:"

franna · V Deep

I did a decent amount of research in between those sentences - I looked at the lyrics and I googled the event and read various news accounts.

My understanding of the events and my opinion: A black man was killed, allegedly without provocation, by white police officers in Miami. The trial was moved to Tampa. Tampa was primarily white, and therefore a Tampa jury was, almost by definition, more likely to believe the account of white police officers. The officers were acquitted, which caused rioting in the black areas of Miami.

This is a story about race in America, not wealth (at least as wealth can be separated from race as an issue), and certainly not how retirees spend their time, or Florida being a place where rich people live.

Yes, it's true that people retire in Florida. As far as that's concerned, I think Geldof was only saying (or, if he meant something beyond that - that the only legitimate criticism would be) that it sucks to think you're going somewhere peaceful to retire only to end up in the middle of a race riot.

If he did mean something beyond that, he's just wrong.

Edited to add: This is nitpicking, but just for the record - Disneyland is in California, Disneyworld is in Florida.

Edited again to add: I'd ballpark Tampa as about...4 or 5 hours (NW) from Miami. In 1980, I'd guess Tampa was also brimming with retirees, but I'd bet they were primarily middle class (at best). I can check all these things by asking people who live(d) and/or grew up there.

Finally, if I were going to write a scathing critique of Florida, it would likely involve all the migrant (and non-migrant) farm workers, who work inland on the cattle ranches and sugar cane/orange/grapefruit plantations, many of whom live in a horrifying equivalent of modern-day slavery. My point is there are enough legitimate critiques to make. The entire state of Florida as a haven for rich & lazy retirees is not one of them.

-- Edited by franna at 02:43, 2005-10-18

-- Edited by franna at 19:12, 2005-10-18

Mark L · Loudmouth

It's a great track, even better in album format with an extra verse, coupled with an hilarious video. The travesty is this song stalled at 26 thereby becoming their first single not to crack the UK Top 20. I recall Mike Read joining in with the sense of injustice, saying 'What has happened to this song on this week's charts? I had to double check it was at 27 not 7'. Then in mock Irish accent 'Captain Bob will not be a happy man, so he won't. Lets see if we can cheer him up with a few last plays this week....'

I'm not sure it ever got a TOTP outing, so that won't have helped, but all things being equal, you can't normally keep a good song down. Maybe I am biased, but at school, it's 'commercial nature' was evident in amateur playground renditions and those of us who were well into the Rats were genuinely surprised at the relatively poor chart showing of this one.

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

My feelings about the track is it is very heavily influenced by Elvis Costello, at times sounding like a cover version. Also Geldof's opinion on the Florida riots is very ambigious, lacking the directness of many of the preceeding singles. I like the song, but like Diamond Smiles, which it is far superior to, it didn't seem to work on the radio. Franna's point about write what you know is a good one, and Geldof songs always work better when they are personal.

Even so, I was a bit surprised by the low chart position at the time, but as I remember John Lennon and Adam & The Ants were dominating the chart with re-releases. Even Rapture by Blondie, the standout track on Autoamerican, released on the back of three #1s, only made #5. Maybe in a less competitive chart it would have made the top twenty and even sneaked into the top 10.

noelindublin · Loudmouth

I think Geldof was trying to reflect the incomprehensiveness of the elderly American's in Miami, and also just write more or less spontaneous account of the various emotions one is presented with in a riot situation, so on that score the lyrics are pretty apt and non partisan.

Any political song is always likely to oversimply the situation and reduce complex issues to a few slogans, biased towards one side or the other.

There is a really good documentary called Cocaine Cowboys about Miami, how it went from being a sleepy backwater to a major developed city in the early 1980's, because it was the centre of the cocaine trade as an entry point into the US market.

Mark L · Loudmouth

Totally agree with the Costello comments and not coming across well on the radio, although paradoxically I always think Olivers Army comes over quite well. A lot of what I like about the track is Simon Crowe's drumming (and this is true of Real Different too) which comes across as especially energetic and which links the preceding line with the next line with an almost insane hook each time. Highly watchable video and yes, possibly too much lazy sloganising and muddled-up cliches but sung well and upbeat throughout, it is for me about 4th on my list of favourite singles by the Rats.

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

Mark L wrote:
...it is for me about 4th on my list of favourite singles by the Rats.

High praise indeed. Interestingly we have never had a singles ranking hereabouts...

Mark L · Loudmouth

Just given an airing on Signal Radio, Cheshire (single version, therefore minus the third verse which improves the song) in their 'forgotten favourites' slot.

DJ remarked, 'there was a lot more to this lot than Mondays and Rat Trap'.

Quite..........welcome to our world.

-- Edited by Mark L on Saturday 14th of January 2012 03:50:48 PM

noelindublin · Loudmouth

Mark L wrote:
Just given an airing on Signal Radio, Cheshire (single version, therefore minus the third verse which improves the song) in their 'forgotten favourites' slot.
DJ remarked, 'there was a lot more to this lot than Mondays and Rat Trap'.
Quite..........welcome to our world.

-- Edited by Mark L on Saturday 14th of January 2012 03:50:48 PM

Much prefer the three verse version. The single was too short, and didn't tell the full story and Geldof intended, so it was compromised a bit.

Are people supposed to be so braindead that they can't cope with a song as it was meant to be, rather than a truncated version to fit in with the under four minute attention span of the so called average music fan.

The two verse song always seemed too abrupt but I suppose both versions are available and known to all true fans. The single seemed like a half told story and some of us wondered why the full version was not released as a single. Needless to say it is a brilliant song and I remember hearing the album version of late night radio in Ireland , back in the day, by some dj who liked album tracks.

Mark L · Loudmouth

I've just reread my post Noel; I'm sure there is none, but in case of doubt, I much prefer the three verse version! It completes the interpretation of what was going on as Geldof saw it and I never did think it required truncating. Rat Trap was longer than the album version of EG which is still under 4 minutes. Would have been better as 3 verses and maybe 2 less 'shimmy shames' if really worried about single length and then we may have seen this climb higher than the criminally-unfair 26 it reached. One of 1981's best songs.

noelindublin · Loudmouth

My heart always sank when I heard the single version, just as the song was building momentum it was cut down in its prime. Knowing that the album full length version was the 'real song' and getting an edited version in its stead my feelings again were of disappointment and a feeling that radio dj's cannot cope with songs over three minutes, most of them having an inordinate urge to talk nonsense in the mistaken belief that they are funny and witty and that people tune in to listen to them talk.

Maybe if the full length version had been released it would not have mattered, as most of the dj's would have cut the song short with some of their not to be missed witty observations on life and some celebrity gossip.

On the Greatest Hits compilation the full lenght version was chosen. And I always liked the 'shame shame shimmy shame' bit!

Mark L · Loudmouth

I grew up in Wolverhampton and our local station, Beacon 303, had a dj called Peter Craig who made EG his record of the week, and loved the Rats, so i forgave his inane chatter which seems stock in trade for many, as you say. Except once, when he ruined SLAY by coming in with 'important' weather news on the line ' there's a spy in the sky' - I was trying to tape it as no pocket money and noone had taken the hint that TFAOS wouldn't have gone amiss as a Christmas present!

Mark L · Loudmouth

On Spotify, I've come across a Top of the Poppers version of this where most lines could be candidates for misheard lyrics. So lazy. We get amongst other gems:

I feel so stupid about your own invention - and fear's no cheaper on the old age pension

You see the church and then you check the children - you see the Judge and then you check the jury

She doesn't hear it, does it loud and cutely - she does her hair and calls the lawyer cutie

It's a trip to a land under martial arts - it's Disneyland under martial law

Suppose it's an 'honour' it's on there with Vienna and Woman; can't help thinking they thought like most of us, it was going to go a lot higher than 26.

noelindublin · Loudmouth

Mark L wrote:
I grew up in Wolverhampton and our local station, Beacon 303, had a dj called Peter Craig who made EG his record of the week, and loved the Rats, so i forgave his inane chatter which seems stock in trade for many, as you say. Except once, when he ruined SLAY by coming in with 'important' weather news on the line ' there's a spy in the sky' - I was trying to tape it as no pocket money and noone had taken the hint that TFAOS wouldn't have gone amiss as a Christmas present!

Not sure if you have met Wes. He is from Wolves and goes to lots of the gigs. Was at Birmingham in October and Cork, Chagstock, Ifield/Gatwick and Iow. Think he has seen the Rats more times than anyone else. Think he might be at Cheltenham as it''s within reach of West Midlands.

Mark L · Loudmouth

Not had the pleasure yet but he'll be a mighty fine chap given his appreciation of the Rats!

manatthetop · In the Long Grass

noelindublin wrote:
My heart always sank when I heard the single version, just as the song was building momentum it was cut down in its prime. Knowing that the album full length version was the 'real song' and getting an edited version in its stead my feelings again were of disappointment and a feeling that radio dj's cannot cope with songs over three minutes, most of them having an inordinate urge to talk nonsense in the mistaken belief that they are funny and witty and that people tune in to listen to them talk.
Maybe if the full length version had been released it would not have mattered, as most of the dj's would have cut the song short with some of their not to be missed witty observations on life and some celebrity gossip.
On the Greatest Hits compilation the full lenght version was chosen. And I always liked the 'shame shame shimmy shame' bit!

Bang on the money with this one Noel The full song is far much better But it works both ways Like I think Mondays, Someone's looking at you, Banana R, House on fire work much better as singles But E G didn't

Mark L · Loudmouth

Agree on this, except SLAY works in both formats for me. The lp version gives you a little more instrumental middle bit but I don't like the lp version ending. Way better fading to end like House on Fire.

Suppose the live version always had to have an ending, if only to give Bob the chance to tell us he may get drunk.....

noelindublin · Loudmouth

Mark L wrote:
Not had the pleasure yet but he'll be a mighty fine chap given his appreciation of the Rats!

I remember Wes telling Suss and me in a pub in Wales(the first time I met him), about how he (Wes) was too you to get into a gig, but sneaked in. Might have been Woverhampton Civic Hall or somewhere in West Midlands. Basically said he was totally gobsmacked by the Rats and has followed them and Geldof ever since. Not sure how many times he's seen them since, but I suspect many.

I think Wes was under 16, but managed to get into the gig somehow.

-- Edited by noelindublin on Wednesday 21st of May 2014 12:09:16 PM

Mark L · Loudmouth

I went to the Civic Hall in Wolves in 1990 with my younger brother for the Vegetarians gig.....he was 12 and no one batted an eyelid!

-- Edited by Mark L on Tuesday 3rd of June 2014 01:08:53 PM

jamieuka · House on Fire

Have we confirmed that The Elephant's Grapeyard never got airing on TOTP? Assuming this is true (and other threads indicate that this is the case), why do we think it got overlooked?

I was wondering about band availability but the list of known tour dates suggest they were indeed available for selection. Surely is would be fabulously bad management decision to release a single, only to have to decline the opportunity to do TOTP? Did management offer a video in place of a band appearance, which got declined by the TOTP producers?

Mark L · Loudmouth

jamieuka wrote:
Have we confirmed that The Elephant's Grapeyard never got airing on TOTP? Assuming this is true (and other threads indicate that this is the case), why do we think it got overlooked?

I was wondering about band availability but the list of known tour dates suggest they were indeed available for selection. Surely is would be fabulously bad management decision to release a single, only to have to decline the opportunity to do TOTP? Did management offer a video in place of a band appearance, which got declined by the TOTP producers?

It definitely did not get a TOTP airing. It was released very quickly after Banana Republic which did get a January 1981 airing. The songs passed each other in the top 75 on the way down/up etc.

As for the video, there is a second of cartoon animal 'rumpy pumpy' but blink and you'd miss it and I doubt even if it were spotted by the TOTP censors, they would have banned it given what else was about.

I think it was just bad luck and had it gone higher than 26, an invite would have gone out or the video shown. Be interesting to know if there's more to it than that, as I'm guessing really.

Mark L · Loudmouth

Spandau Ballet (Chrysalis)
16 (10) I AM THE BEAT The Look (MCA)
17 (15) A LITTLE IN LOVE Cliff Richard (EMI)
18 ( ) ROCK THIS TOWN Stray Cats (Arista)
19 (23) SGT. ROCK (IS GOING TO HELP ME) XTC (Virgin)
20 (28) IT'S MY TURN Diana Ross (Motown)
21 ( ) THAT'S ENTERTAINMENT Jam (Metronome)
22 (13) I AIN'T GONNA STAND FOR IT Stevie Wonder (Motown)
23 (29) THE ELEPHANT'S GRAVEYARD (GUILTY) Boomtown Rats (Ensign)
24 (24) I'M IN LOVE WITH A GERMAN FILM STAR Passions (Polydor)
25 (21) TWILIGHT CAFE Susan Fassbender (CBS)

At least Melody Maker has the song at 23 in their own charts for the 14th February 1981.

noelindublin · Loudmouth

Mark L wrote:
Spandau Ballet (Chrysalis)
16 (10) I AM THE BEAT The Look (MCA)
17 (15) A LITTLE IN LOVE Cliff Richard (EMI)
18 ( ) ROCK THIS TOWN Stray Cats (Arista)
19 (23) SGT. ROCK (IS GOING TO HELP ME) XTC (Virgin)
20 (28) IT'S MY TURN Diana Ross (Motown)
21 ( ) THAT'S ENTERTAINMENT Jam (Metronome)
22 (13) I AIN'T GONNA STAND FOR IT Stevie Wonder (Motown)
23 (29) THE ELEPHANT'S GRAVEYARD (GUILTY) Boomtown Rats (Ensign)
24 (24) I'M IN LOVE WITH A GERMAN FILM STAR Passions (Polydor)
25 (21) TWILIGHT CAFE Susan Fassbender (CBS)
At least Melody Maker has the song at 23 in their own charts for the 14th February 1981.

J****s Remember when we actually cared about and knew what songs were in the charts.Seems a long long time ago now. Even if EG was not a big hit at least there was plenty of competition, admittedly some novelty type songs and one hit wonders. When I see the current charts my eyes glaze over. smile

Jules · The biggest Geldof fan in the world, bar none!

About 35 years ago one of the most important things on the world was the charts. We used to have a radio on in school at lunch time on Tuesday, listening in.

Mark L · Loudmouth

We did too! The news would then sweep round the school after Gary Davies (?) had announced the new top 40.

noelindublin · Loudmouth

There was always a tranny or two about our school in the l

ate seventies.(sounds like a 70s double entendre!) smile

-- Edited by noelindublin on Monday 18th of July 2016 02:50:26 PM

Mark L · Loudmouth

noelindublin wrote:
Mark L wrote:
Spandau Ballet (Chrysalis)
16 (10) I AM THE BEAT The Look (MCA)
17 (15) A LITTLE IN LOVE Cliff Richard (EMI)
18 ( ) ROCK THIS TOWN Stray Cats (Arista)
19 (23) SGT. ROCK (IS GOING TO HELP ME) XTC (Virgin)
20 (28) IT'S MY TURN Diana Ross (Motown)
21 ( ) THAT'S ENTERTAINMENT Jam (Metronome)
22 (13) I AIN'T GONNA STAND FOR IT Stevie Wonder (Motown)
23 (29) THE ELEPHANT'S GRAVEYARD (GUILTY) Boomtown Rats (Ensign)
24 (24) I'M IN LOVE WITH A GERMAN FILM STAR Passions (Polydor)
25 (21) TWILIGHT CAFE Susan Fassbender (CBS)
At least Melody Maker has the song at 23 in their own charts for the 14th February 1981.
J****s Remember when we actually cared about and knew what songs were in the charts.Seems a long long time ago now. Even if EG was not a big hit at least there was plenty of competition, admittedly some novelty type songs and one hit wonders. When I see the current charts my eyes glaze over.

Mine do too!

What a great tune and video this was. The video was recorded on Dec 19th 1980 at Ewart & Co's in Wandsworth.

-- Edited by Mark L on Tuesday 23rd of August 2016 12:14:19 AM