Bob, Ireland and Irishness

Roger Buck · Mary of the 4th Form

Bob, Ireland and Irishness

suss · In the Long Grass

Difficult to speculate, but he does spend a fair few minutes lamenting fact that all the negatives that led to Banana Republic remain whenever he introduces that song. I think his view when he makes these points is that it remains parochial and corrupt, and guilty of double-standards within the church but that's only my interpretation.

That said, when he played in Dublin this year he was clearly enjoying the gig and played a couple more tracks than at other gigs I managed to see him at over the same tour as well as waiting for a good 40 mins till he's met all the fans who hung about to see him.

If I had to guess, I'd hazard that he's still deep down fond of the place and that will increase as the years pass. Think we all grow nostalgic, literally longing for home, as the years pass don't we?

Jules · The biggest Geldof fan in the world, bar none!

He has also said that Dublin is his favourite place to play. I think he has a love-hate relationship with it. Probably for the reasons Suss suggests. That makes a lot of sense to me.

noelindublin · Loudmouth

It's hard for anyone to have a relationship with a place they do not live in- ie to know the ins and outs of everyday life. Geldof left Ireland in the mid seventes, when all there was was political corruption, poverty, the spillover from the 'troubles' in Northern Ireland, and a bleak outlook. There was also a pretty socially conservative society dominated by the Catholic church.Being a successful musician meant having to go to where the market was ie Britain/London.

Geldof outgrew Ireland. It was and still is a regional backwater, with a somewhat overinflated sense if it's own importance. Geldof nowadays seems to travel a lot all over the world, so that must give him a certain perspective, as it would anyone who gets the opportunity to travel and see how others live their lives.

Most of Banana Republic was about the ambivelence of certain sections of the Irish population to the use of violence in Northern Ireland- 'the purple and the pinstripes mutely shake their heads/ a violence shrieking volumes, a violence worst than they condemn'.

Ireland or Dublin at least is now much more multi racial, like most large European cities. The new religion seems to be shopping, despite the recession. Certain old fashioned values are missing. There is no end to bad manners from the, lets be frank, working class poor ie Dublin skangers, chavs what have you but maybe every city has them. A complete lack of refinement, artlessness, and culture. Streets full of illiterate junkies scaring tourists.

I'm sure Geldof in a way enjoys coming back, but equally he's glad not to be staying too long.

Roger Buck · Mary of the 4th Form

Thank you for all this ...

I really find this question of interest and appreciate all your input.

I have a fair amount of sympathy with what you say here noelindublin - although I don't so much blame "chavs" but something deeper in the culture:

noelindublin wrote:

The new religion seems to be shopping, despite the recession. Certain old fashioned values are missing. There is no end to bad manners from the, lets be frank, working class poor ie Dublin skangers, chavs what have you but maybe every city has them. A complete lack of refinement, artlessness, and culture.

But getting back to Bob Gelfof.

Geldof seems to either say very contradictory things or be able to reach really very different opinions than he had in his youth.

He seems to spend his entire book in the 80s criticising Ireland and also Irish nationalism.

This is not only IRA violence, but seems to include the attempt by De Valeras Ireland to keep at bay what were seen as corrupting influences from the outside world, preserve Irish language, culture, music etc.

All this Bob says he loathes.

But then in his piece on the Pogues that someone linked to here, he says he finally began to appreciate Irish music.

And then - and I find this really interesting - he writes this song. The Song of the Emergent Nationalist ...

What IS this song?!!

It would either seem to contradict everything he said earlier about Irish nationalism - or it shows some development/change in his thinking.

Question go around in my mind? Why emergent nationalist? Is he saying that a nationalist perspective starts to emerge in him?

What do lyrics like this really mean?

Where is your culture? It's been stolen.

Where are your ideals? They've been stolen.

Where is your nation? It's been stolen.

Where is your language? Gone.

Where are your traditions? Robbed.

Where is your future? It's been stolen.

Who are you now? We don't know.

As I say, all this seems very contrary to things Bob said in earlier times. If anyone can say anything further about either the meaning of this song and/or other things Bob Geldof has said which accord with this, I would be grateful ...

suss · In the Long Grass

noelindublin wrote:
Geldof outgrew Ireland. It was and still is a regional backwater, with a somewhat overinflated sense if it's own importance.

Slightly off topic so apologies but the above reminded me of a recent TV trailer for an Irish stand-up (name escaped me), saying 'I grew up on an island off the coast of Ireland, called Britain'. Made me laugh anyway.

Going back to topic. Does Bob have reason to return other than gigging or public speaking? Aware of his recent losses but is there more close family 'at home'? Also, didn't he make the time to attend some boat club event in honour of his father? Must still be some emotional ties surely, even if he needs to 'operate' out of UK.

noelindublin · Loudmouth

Roger Buck wrote:
Thank you for all this ...

I really find this question of interest and appreciate all your input.

I have a fair amount of sympathy with what you say here noelindublin - although I don't so much blame "chavs" but something deeper in the culture:

noelindublin wrote:
The new religion seems to be shopping, despite the recession. Certain old fashioned values are missing. There is no end to bad manners from the, lets be frank, working class poor ie Dublin skangers, chavs what have you but maybe every city has them. A complete lack of refinement, artlessness, and culture.

But getting back to Bob Gelfof.

Geldof seems to either say very contradictory things or be able to reach really very different opinions than he had in his youth.

He seems to spend his entire book in the 80s criticising Ireland and also Irish nationalism.

This is not only IRA violence, but seems to include the attempt by De Valeras Ireland to keep at bay what were seen as corrupting influences from the outside world, preserve Irish language, culture, music etc.

All this Bob says he loathes.

But then in his piece on the Pogues that someone linked to here, he says he finally began to appreciate Irish music.

And then - and I find this really interesting - he writes this song. The Song of the Emergent Nationalist ...

What IS this song?!!

It would either seem to contradict everything he said earlier about Irish nationalism - or it shows some development/change in his thinking.

Question go around in my mind? Why emergent nationalist? Is he saying that a nationalist perspective starts to emerge in him?

What do lyrics like this really mean?

Where is your culture? It's been stolen.
Where are your ideals? They've been stolen.
Where is your nation? It's been stolen.
Where is your language? Gone.
Where are your traditions? Robbed.
Where is your future? It's been stolen.
Who are you now? We don't know.

As I say, all this seems very contrary to things Bob said in earlier times. If anyone can say anything further about either the meaning of this song and/or other things Bob Geldof has said which accord with this, I would be grateful ...

To be honest this is one of the duller Geldof songs, heavy on lyrical content but lacking any real interesting tune or sense of engagement. For me at least! If Geldof had developed any major nationalistic views as regards Ireland he has kept them to himself. I very much doubt he falls into the camp that blames all Ireland's woes on British Imperialism. He spoke at a media conference in Belfast a while ago and stated that Northern Ireland should be more at the centre of the Uk media industry so any 'emergent nationalist' would not utter such words. I think he has some media business there.

I think Geldof intellectually has a degree of sympathy for a nation that (some would argue) has had its language and culture stolen by a larger power. But turning those perhaps natural feelings into something like hatred and violent revenge is a step too far for Geldof, as it was/is for the majority of people on the island of Ireland.

You have to remember that his book was written over twenty five years ago so his attitutes as regards lots of things has changed to some degree. I'd imagine he liked the punkish quality to the Pogues, the liveliness and attitude in the music. It was Irish folk but not as we priviously knew it.

Just thinking that the line 'Where is your future? It's been stolen' rings a bit true, but the people doing the stealing were our own greedy bankers, speculators, and politicians, rather than the 'Old enemy'.

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

suss wrote:
'I grew up on an island off the coast of Ireland, called Britain'

Me too

noelindublin · Loudmouth

That's a bit like the old 'Fog in Channel, Continent cut off' line.

JoanOfArc · The Fine Art of Surfacing

i couldnt stand my home town....... but on the subject of bob, as this is a forum about him and not about me........... one can only speculate that......... he didnt enjoy living there at the time.

i didnt enjoy living in my home town either and therefore i associate it with a deep dark depression..........

perhaps its all down to a negative association of some sort...... who knows..... must read bob's autobiography, i might have something to contribute then.

if this thread is deleted due to me mentioning depression i shall get a few email addresses from folk on here and not come back.

just saying.