Album Talk: 'V DEEP'

IrelandCalling · Never In A Million Years

Album Talk: 'V DEEP'

Mike menzies · V Deep

I love this lp always loved it from when bougthin1982 must admit it is my fave lp after long grass ( it's weird I liked the later stuff better than the earlier although they are all fab lps) I've always said the rats at their worst are better than a lot of groups at their best if I could only have 6 albums in the world the rats would be all of them

Derek The Dane · V Deep

I have always mantained V Deep as the weakest Rats album,lots of good stuff on there but to much horn music for my likeing.

Jules · The biggest Geldof fan in the world, bar none!

It's my least favourite of all the albums. I couldn't say I don't like it. Interesting how we differ on our favourites. Mine are the first three. They have enough of a diverse range of sounds to appeal to quite a spectrum of people well ish.

noelindublin · Loudmouth

If they had put Europe looked Ugly and No Hiding Place on the album if would have been better. Sticking House Burned Down(Bovell Mix) and Little Death on the b sides would have made it a better, higher quality listening experience. A Story Breaks too might be more of a b side but Europe/Hiding Place are both good enough to be on the album and not rarely heard flip sides.

I love Never In a Million Years, Up All Night and The Bitter End and most of the songs are very good. I don't dislike Charmed Lives as much as many other here do.

Not sure how I'd describe the overall mood or tone but then Geldof was never Mr Chuckles was he? smile Geldof asks 'And on the side that wins how can we loose, we always do...' so I'd say overall there is an atmosphere of resignation and doubt. Songs about bad sex, drug addiction and staying up too late all give it a nice mix of interesting concerns and problems to be figured out.

I like all the albums and the tend to leap over each other like teams in the Championship, changing very frequently.

manatthetop · In the Long Grass

High point's for me on this album. He watches it all, Skin on skin. House of fire Up all night Never in a million years. Lows Charmed Lives, Storm breaks Little death.

Jules · The biggest Geldof fan in the world, bar none!

He watches it all and Up all night are probably my top tracks here.

IrelandCalling · Never In A Million Years

Interesting thoughts and viewpoints; thanks for the responses!

My top highs I think would be The Little Death, A Storm Breaks, House on Fire and He Watches it All. Four amazing tracks I think, only the Clash of their peers were doing more genre bending at the time. I love the Clash but I think the Rats had a much more consistent 6 album stretch.

'Up all Night', 'Never in a million Years', 'The Bitter End'; there is such variety and quality on the album, not many mainstream acts make this kind of music anymore.

I agree on the B Sides, 'No Hiding Place' & 'Europe Looked Ugly'; very good tracks. I've never heard 'House Burned Down', is it different in any big way to the two versions of the song available on the reissue of 'V Deep'? I absolutely love the track, so another variation would be something I'd be very interested in.

suss · In the Long Grass

Still my least favourite but over time I've accepted it as more 'interesting' than Mondo Bongo. I'm sure I've heard Bob rates is as their best, but is that defiance or just to be contrary?

Highlights for me, in common with some others, are He Watches it All, Never in a Million Years and Skin on Skin. Lowlights Charmed Lives and Little Death (possibly worst Rats offering anywhere imho). The rest I probably wouldn't have listended to a second time if not the Rats, including House on Fire, which I grew to like but for me doesn't capture the essence of band.

Incidentally, anyone ever been to the restaurant called V Deep in Scotland??

Jules · The biggest Geldof fan in the world, bar none!

suss wrote:
Still my least favourite but over time I've accepted it as more 'interesting' than Mondo Bongo. I'm sure I've heard Bob rates is as their best, but is that defiance or just to be contrary?
Highlights for me, in common with some others, are He Watches it All, Never in a Million Years and Skin on Skin. Lowlights Charmed Lives and Little Death (possibly worst Rats offering anywhere imho). The rest I probably wouldn't have listended to a second time if not the Rats, including House on Fire, which I grew to like but for me doesn't capture the essence of band.
Incidentally, anyone ever been to the restaurant called V Deep in Scotland??

Ive heard Bob say this album is what the Rats were about. Not for me, the early ones were to me. Interesting you say it doesn't capture the essence of them.

noelindublin · Loudmouth

IrelandCalling wrote:
Interesting thoughts and viewpoints; thanks for the responses!

My top highs I think would be The Little Death, A Storm Breaks, House on Fire and He Watches it All. Four amazing tracks I think, only the Clash of their peers were doing more genre bending at the time. I love the Clash but I think the Rats had a much more consistent 6 album stretch.

'Up all Night', 'Never in a million Years', 'The Bitter End'; there is such variety and quality on the album, not many mainstream acts make this kind of music anymore.

I agree on the B Sides, 'No Hiding Place' & 'Europe Looked Ugly'; very good tracks. I've never heard 'House Burned Down', is it different in any big way to the two versions of the song available on the reissue of 'V Deep'? I absolutely love the track, so another variation would be something I'd be very interested in.

There is a full 12" dub mix of House On Fire by Denis Bovell which might be an extended version of House Burned Down.

It was on one of the V Deep 12 inch b sides back in the day. Dub to me only means lots of echo and musical teasing so while interesting it's probably non essential.Must have been on HOF 12 inch.

It's hear on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzBY0o7cPCg

Mike menzies · V Deep

I know I'm a stick in the mud but I love this lp more than most of the others itlg excepted but that's just me

Mark L · Loudmouth

I like a lot of the album but it sounds lazy here and there and occasionally self -indulgent. Charmed Lives and the Little Death sound like not much effort has been put into them. Yet there are some superb moments like the first two singles off the album and He Watches It All. I have also grown to like the instrumental version of A Storm Breaks.

Lisa · Mondo Bongo

I don't really like this album - for me the first 2 albums are the best, with Surfacing coming third, and then I confess I slightly lost interest in the music. But glad they got it together again and I got the chance to finally see them perform live!

suss · In the Long Grass

Jules wrote:
including House on Fire, which I grew to like but for me doesn't capture the essence of band.
Interesting you say it doesn't capture the essence of them.

For me the essence is more guitar and less brass. I think the success of earlier albums, Lisa's comment above, and the fact 2013 lineup includes the 'other' guitar and concentrates on early tracks does a lot to bear this out. Only my opinion as ever - I still like elements of albums 4 and 5 alot, but they contain the tracks I actively dislike too. ITLG was a good strong return, albeit never scaling the heights of 77-79.

Jules · The biggest Geldof fan in the world, bar none!

Guitar and drums for me, bit of sax here and there.

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

The now annual V Deep debate...

boomtownrats.activeboard.com/t15082325/v-deephow-good-or-bad-is-it/

boomtownrats.activeboard.com/t38367121/v-deep-fallout/

boomtownrats.activeboard.com/t2776597/v-deep-reviews/

boomtownrats.activeboard.com/t2109278/v-deep-a-revelation/

... both V Deep and Mondo are curate's eggs. I suspect that if they weren't forced to release Mondo at the time because of upcoming tour commitments and finished some of the hangover songs then the best of both albums could have been combined into something special.

The trouble with V Deep is it is too eclectic. Had they tried to find a single new sound and made an album based around it, I think it would have been a better option than the scatter gun approach adopted. The tracks on the first three albums and In The Long Grass albeit different do have common elements. Mondo and V Deep have to be taken on a track by track basis as the shift between the tracks is so drastic at points. Both are definitely improved with the fast forward button.

Ultimately, it isn't a good album, though it has some incredibly good tracks on it.

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

Jules wrote:
Guitar and drums for me, bit of sax here and there.

Yeah, just as long as there's no poncing around with a piano and strings like on that song, err, I Don't Like Mondays.

Keyboards and violins are always a good addition to rock music. Think Great Song of Indifference. The only great solo song from Geldof.

Personally, I'm not too concerned about the instruments as long as it sounds good.

jamieuka · House on Fire

This may be an annual debate but personally I'm still waiting for the V Deep era demos to surface. It has been too many years since those tantalising snippets of Hairstyle (became Charmed Lives) and Beat of the Night.

Mike menzies · V Deep

Beat of the night appeared on geldofs solo deep in the heart of nowhere and sounds like a rats song

Ian D · House on Fire

I wonder if anybody knows if any of the tracks on V Deep never got a live airing. Can't remember hearing Bitter End live.

Mike menzies · V Deep

I have a concert with talking in code & million years on it but that's about it I think

noelindublin · Loudmouth

Ian D wrote:
I wonder if anybody knows if any of the tracks on V Deep never got a live airing. Can't remember hearing Bitter End live.

Up All Night appears appears on an American concert around 1981. Brilliant version it is too.Charmed Lives was also played live a lot, as well as Million Years and Talking In Code, as Mike mentions.Not sure if The Bitter End was done live, same goes for He Watches It All. Even back in the day fans probably wanted the hits of old, so only a handful of new V Deep tracks were played live. It just struck me that I can't remember hearing a live version of House On Fire the only 'hit' from V Deep, though with the mini army of backing percussion that toured with the Rats a live version of House on Fire doubtless exists.

Mike menzies · V Deep

Ian I think house on fire was on a in concert ( bbc 1982) might have it somewhere will have to look in my collection

Ian D · House on Fire

Yes, House on Fire was played quite often in 1982. I have live recordings from Hammersmith and Newcastle to name just two which have it.

Mark L · Loudmouth

There's some good moments on V Deep but the critics didn't like it. I remember the reviews ' V Deep V Dismal ' and was it Record Mirror or Melody Maker whose review title was 'Bobsie in deep trouble'

Press prattle.

Jules · The biggest Geldof fan in the world, bar none!

Mark L wrote:
There's some good moments on V Deep but the critics didn't like it. I remember the reviews ' V Deep V Dismal ' and was it Record Mirror or Melody Maker whose review title was 'Bobsie in deep trouble'
Press prattle.

When weren't they/aren't they scathingly critical?

Mike menzies · V Deep

I remember this review I think it was melody maker I know I wrote to,them they sent a note saying your views have been noted then heard nothing again so my views on their reviewer fell on deaf ears

manatthetop · In the Long Grass

Not the best thing the Rats have done. But as Mark has pointed out does have some good wee track's This would be the least of the Rats albums I would play. But in saying that. I have been given this a wee turn over the last few months.

Mark L · Loudmouth

Found a reasonably priced mint condition V Deep on Discogs so now have a refreshed version of the vinyl which I have transferred to CD for the car. Great to hear the 'proper' version of Up All Night again. Shame the sleeve has the tell-tale hole punch in the sleeve, signifying the retailer sent it back to the label.

Mike menzies · V Deep

Incidentally just played us import 12inch of skin on skin / talking in code. Lovely 12 inch single and 2 very good tracks still loving playing vinyl will give ratrospective a play later

Mark L · Loudmouth

Mike menzies wrote:
Incidentally just played us import 12inch of skin on skin / talking in code. Lovely 12 inch single and 2 very good tracks still loving playing vinyl will give ratrospective a play later

Is the 12 inch of Skin on Skin different to the V Deep album version, Mike?

Mike menzies · V Deep

No it's the same as is talking in code just saw it some months ago online so bought it but as you know lm an anorak when it comes to rats items

Mark L · Loudmouth

Nothing wrong with that smile

jamieuka · House on Fire

Mike menzies wrote:
talking in code. Lovely 12 inch single

I got excited there for a moment: might it contain the missing third verse, the lyrics for which ("A = B... C = 3...") were printed on the original inner sleeve and duplicated by all the lyric sites on the interwebs? Seems not :(

Love this song. Always the first tune I play when I encounter a piano or keyboard, swiftly followed by the opening bars of Mondays, of course.

noelindublin · Loudmouth

jamieuka wrote:
Mike menzies wrote:
talking in code. Lovely 12 inch single
I got excited there for a moment: might it contain the missing third verse, the lyrics for which ("A = B... C = 3...") were printed on the original inner sleeve and duplicated by all the lyric sites on the interwebs? Seems not :(
Love this song. Always the first tune I play when I encounter a piano or keyboard, swiftly followed by the opening bars of Mondays, of course.

Jamie - live version from The Dominion Theatre, 1985 includes the 'A=B....' lines. Starts about 3.30 in the video. Ok it's not a 12" single recorded version but the live version is nearly six mins long and includes the final verse omitted from V Deep.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PitiRXgk-Os

Mike menzies · V Deep

Yeh talking in code is a fab song I would've put no hiding place on v deep instead of little death as this is a poor song on the album liked most of the other songs though

manatthetop · In the Long Grass

Mike menzies wrote:
Yeh talking in code is a fab song I would've put no hiding place on v deep instead of little death as this is a poor song on the album liked most of the other songs though

Agree. would also have put Europe Looked Ugly on this LP much better song than The above Charmed Lives & A Storm Breaks. Same with Real Different. Never got why this was not on the Mondo Bongo LP such a great wee song for it just to be A b side

jamieuka · House on Fire

noelindublin wrote:
jamieuka wrote:
Mike menzies wrote:
talking in code. Lovely 12 inch single
Jamie - live version from The Dominion Theatre, 1985 includes the 'A=B....' lines. Starts about 3.30 in the video. Ok it's not a 12" single recorded version but the live version is nearly six mins long and includes the final verse omitted from V Deep.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PitiRXgk-Os

Also Gold Diggers Chppenham, third verse starts at 31.37:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxL-MLV-x0U

PS wouldn't mind one of those Steinberger Basses :)

Mike menzies · V Deep

Just after v deep I purchased an American ep, with charmed lives house skin & storm breaks this was released before deep in the states and I think this was a great ep but the full lp came out later that year over there I wish they'd released skin on skin as a single over here