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House on Fire

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I dont Like Mondays - should it be retired?
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Playing devil advocate and perhaps stirring up some debate, after the increasing number of school shooting is America, is IDLM in bad taste and should it be retired?

I know it's a song that most casual fans want to hear, but for me it simply tells a story of a school shooting. Poor taste? Maybe if it was very much anti NRA, then I would stick with it, but in a sense it has given immortaility to Brenda Spencer........more than she allowed those poor children she killed. Certainly if written now, it would struggle to be released.

 

Now that I have lit the fuse, over to you.



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I had similar thoughts a few years ago...

http://theboomtownrats.blogspot.co.uk/2006/01/i-dont-like-mondays-channel-4.html

But I have changed my mind a bit.  Foster The People had a song with a similar theme https://genius.com/Foster-the-people-pumped-up-kicks-lyrics and maybe these songs remind people of the stupidity of these actions and may ultimately help in changing the approach to guns in the US, though arguably 40 years of Mondays hasn't made much impression. 

I still don't think Mondays was appropriate for Live Aid nor Live 8, but there are songs that IMHO that come across as far more sinister when you scratch the surface.  As an example, the lyrics of the saccharine Happy Birthday Sweet Sixteen read like they were written by an incestuous peadophile. 

Mondays was opportunistic but I don't see it as that different from a newspaper article of TV documentary on spree shooters.

And they have to keep it because it's the only song all the audience know!

 



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Dave

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I'm a bit surprised that a copycat shooting has not occurred on a Monday somewhere in the States, 'inspired' by the Rats song. Every time there is a mass shooting I always check what day it has happened on. Maybe the song should be played less frequently, but that's likely to disappoint fans who come to hear the hits, and then end up feeling disappointed and short changed. After all it is the Rats most famous song. Maybe Geldof should just tell the audience that in the current climate the song may not be  appropriate. I'm sure he's vehemently anti-gun though what difference someone on this side of the Atlantic can make to internal American firearms policy I can't say.

It's a good example of Geldof claiming that nothing has changed since the band regrouped. In the case of mass shootings they are definitely getting worse.



-- Edited by Noel on Monday 26th of February 2018 08:50:50 AM

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Noel wrote:

'inspired' by the Rats song


I can't imagine the perpetrator (who was 19)  had even heard of the song, and I don't think you would be inspired to go on a spree killing by it.   According to this https://everytownresearch.org/school-shootings/5924/#5831 there have been 18 separate school shooting incidents in the US this year and 291 since 2013.

And as for the draft dodging POTUS, I don't seriously believe he would have ran into anywhere shooting was taking place.

It is just a song about something that happened about 40 years ago.  I don't think it should have been played in circumstances like Live Aid or Live 8, but at a Rats gig it has to be.  Even if there are a dozen of more songs I would rather hear.  In fact, best Rats "gig" in recent times at Maida Vale they didn't play it at all.   I would retire it because I am fed up of hearing it



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In the Long Grass

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ArrGee wrote:
Noel wrote:

'inspired' by the Rats song


I can't imagine the perpetrator (who was 19)  had even heard of the song, and I don't think you would be inspired to go on a spree killing by it.   According to this https://everytownresearch.org/school-shootings/5924/#5831 there have been 18 separate school shooting incidents in the US this year and 291 since 2013.

And as for the draft dodging POTUS, I don't seriously believe he would have ran into anywhere shooting was taking place.

It is just a song about something that happened about 40 years ago.  I don't think it should have been played in circumstances like Live Aid or Live 8, but at a Rats gig it has to be.  Even if there are a dozen of more songs I would rather hear.  In fact, best Rats "gig" in recent times at Maida Vale they didn't play it at all.   I would retire it because I am fed up of hearing it


 You must be fed up hearing Rat Trap as well as they play that at every gig. Us rat fans know all the song But to the outsider I' Don't Like Monday's is the only song they would know of the Rats. It's the big one. It's like asking P Mc C to not sing Hey Jude at gigs  



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Someone's Looking At You

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I would say I'm as thorough a Rats fan as anybody in the forum. I'm well aware of all 6 albums, the B sides, the newish EP, the whole nine yards. 

I still believe 'I Don't Like Mondays' is one of the Rats' best songs. It is not only totally unlike anything else in their canon but also in music history. The lyrics and piano are staggering. It really elevates them beyond other more standard rock bands of the era (The Buzz****s, The Stranglers etc - both good bands but maybe without the same vision of the Rats). Yeh I agree the Rats have good more standard straight ahead punk rock type songs particularly on the first record. But without the breakout tracks like Banana Republic - they could easily have been dismissed as just another decent punk bank with a couple of straight forward hits. The Rats are special. It's the moments where the Rats stretch beyond themselves that I find they excel. I love their trademarked long form structure songs like 'Someone's Looking At You', 'When The Night Comes' , 'Joey' and 'Rat Trap'. Especially Mondays where they really outpace their contemporaries with regards to originality, edgy lyrical content and audience appeal. I agree the song can be in poor taste but then again it was at the time and continues to be. The public still seems to have taken it to their hearts and I would be sad if they didn't play it. 

 

 



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V Deep

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I don't think it should be retired it is a classic hit if every group who had a controversial song dropped it from playlist then there would be a lot of gaps in playlists

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Rats Fan wrote:

It really elevates them beyond other more standard rock bands of the era (The Buzz****s, The Stranglers etc - both good bands but maybe without the same vision of the Rats). 


I can't agree with that as far as The Stranglers are concerned.  They are pretty far removed from what I would consider a standard rock bank.  They  have a wide range of songs and were still knocking out hit singles and top twenty LPs late into the 1980s.  From Peaches to Always The Sun they had 16 great singles and plenty of well known album tracks like Waltzinblack and Hanging Around.  FWIW I think Golden Brown is one of the greatest singles to not reach #1 and is better than Mondays.

The Buzzc0cks burned brightly and were effectively finished after their frst two LPs , so hard to compare.



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Never In A Million Years

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Sorry but Rats leaps and bounds ahead of Stranglers, early stuff , peaches, hanging around very good but i find Golden Brown really boring.

 



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No, it should not be retired. Fed up of this constant politically correct obsession with airbrushing history so we only look back to a world of sunshine, Mary Poppins and Bambi. It is an astonishingly good song.

Also, Golden Brown is dull and was fortunate to get as high as number 2. 

I heard a politically correct type on the radio other day saying Gary Pucketts Young Girl should be banned and hadnt we all heard the gross sexism and chauvinism in the Human Leagues Dont You Want Me, inferring this female waitress was nothing until a man came along to save her and he can put her right back where she was in mundane-ville etc etc

Stand by for Bob and Sting having to issue public apologies for Mary and Dont Stand. The Knack may have to do community service for My Shirona and goodness knows what will happen to those responsible for My Ding a Ling.

 



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V Deep

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I totally agree mark it is part of the rats music history I don't tire of hearing the wonderful piano start (Alan Dunn has it down to a fine art soz johns fingers) so it is still popular

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daggerrat wrote:

Sorry but Rats leaps and bounds ahead of Stranglers, early stuff , peaches, hanging around very good but i find Golden Brown really boring. 


Matter of opinion who is better, but they still aren't one of the "more standard rock bands of the era".  I find The Stranglers somewhat hit and miss. Black and White is superb yet The Raven is a pretty challenging listen with some real peaks and troughs.  Golden Brown is a pretty complex song with continuous changes in time signatures.  Waltzinblack, Meninblack and Genetix are other good examples of some pretty non standard work.



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Mary of the 4th Form

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Mark L wrote:

No, it should not be retired. Fed up of this constant politically correct obsession with airbrushing history so we only look back to a world of sunshine, Mary Poppins and Bambi. It is an astonishingly good song.

Also, Golden Brown is dull and was fortunate to get as high as number 2. 

I heard a politically correct type on the radio other day saying Gary Pucketts Young Girl should be banned and hadnt we all heard the gross sexism and chauvinism in the Human Leagues Dont You Want Me, inferring this female waitress was nothing until a man came along to save her and he can put her right back where she was in mundane-ville etc etc

Stand by for Bob and Sting having to issue public apologies for Mary and Dont Stand. The Knack may have to do community service for My Shirona and goodness knows what will happen to those responsible for My Ding a Ling.

 

Some great examples in there and thats hardly scratching the surface! NO it should not be banned, it is art, if we're banning this then Johnny Cash would have to be exhumed and held to account for six albums worth of darkness in his American Recordings! I listened to them all recently and to say they are 'dark' is an understatement. It is art nonetheless. And you don't have to listen. 

 


 



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Loudmouth

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Agree wholeheartedly.



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Someone's Looking At You

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I must say 'Golden Brown' may not be typical of the era as I'd lumped The Stranglers in with. But regardless of the changes in time signature, it is dull as ditchwater. There are several pieces of music with interesting time signatures which sound natural and beautiful - 'Here Comes The Sun' - The Beatles, 'Take Five' - Dave Brubeck, 'Everything's Alright - from Jesus Christ Superstar. 

I do find 'Golden Brown' to be tedious and more of an academic exercise than a piece of music. I would also put forward that the Rats as one of the single greatest bands of that era. I agree they are inconsistent. But certainly as a live band they are way better than The Jam, Elvis Costello (especially in his early days). I think they're great. The Rats have star power



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The Fine Art of Surfacing

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whatever her crimes she was someones kid
i agree that this political correctness crap shuts people down and stops them expressing truths in the world
if you want to write a song about a murderer i think thats fine
i mean immortalising her? every time i turn the blinking history channel on there's something about hitler. are we immortalising him too

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The Fine Art of Surfacing

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hmmm i think the song is dark
but dark is good
it nicely encapsulates all the fcukedupness in the world and in people, including in kids, today
people do get into the dark side of life, even as innocents, people study it, analyse it
we know that the song is about an evil act but at no point does it say it's ok to shoot your school mates
hmm bad taste? maybe it is a touch distasteful, but distastefulness isn't a crime, goes with the snake skin suits.
perhaps it exhibits a touch of morbidness
it's different, at a time when different was 'in'.
we're never all gonna agree on everything. thank god.
but being offended by this song i think is a choice. we all have the power to see it in the creative light it is meant in.
at no point does it say that murder is the way to go.
it's quite moving really.
i'd cry at the song because it's so sad that a kid could commit such horrific crimes to her peers. but not that it's being sung about.

i think you gotta think about the message and i don't read an improper message in it all personally



-- Edited by JoanOfArc on Wednesday 28th of March 2018 12:25:09 AM

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The Fine Art of Surfacing

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i was listening to some song by the stranglers the other day actually. something about wanting to beat you up. now that did pretty much suck. i spose they got away with it in the day. but as i listened to the rest of the album on a mate's ipod i decided that the lyrics were'nt my cup of tea through much of the songs. but i did see some of stranglers live in Guildford with Ruts DC supporting and they sounded pretty awesome. i think they're better now than they were.

which makes me think of being in the B-Hive spoons in Brixton Saturday night where loads of stranglers fans were after they'd been to a local stranglers gig.

one of the fans came up to me giving me all these compliments then proceeded to put his arms round my waist. so i shoved him off and he told me to **** off.

some men really can't handle rejection

i was called an ugly old hag by one bloke off a dating site when i told him i wasn't interested

i wonder if he was a stranglers fan too :D



-- Edited by JoanOfArc on Wednesday 28th of March 2018 01:09:37 AM

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The Fine Art of Surfacing

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a which point i called him an immature prick
the whatsapp conversation very quickly escalated into hurling insults and abuse at eachother until i blocked him
what a creep
lol i'd sent him a pic of me on whatsapp and he accused me of putting up really old pics on the dating site. which they were not. they were only a couple of years or so old.
and not especially good ones. i've got better ones. but then you don't want potential dates to think you always look as good as ya best pics. lol.

so when he sent me a close up of him i immediately thought nah so i texted him sorry not interested but good luck
then he started hurling the insults at me

he was a truly hideous little man

thank god i didn't go on a date with him

anyhoo i've given up on dating sites

bunch of boring mingers

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The Fine Art of Surfacing

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so really there is plenty of distasteful things in the world
i don't like mondays isn't too bad in comparison relatively speaking

i mean if blair gets away with massacreing hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians in iraq and winds up being some peace ambassador while everyone else is getting offended by i dont like mondays, then we have a BIG problem and it aint BG's lyrics put it that way


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Loudmouth

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JoanOfArc wrote:

so really there is plenty of distasteful things in the world
i don't like mondays isn't too bad in comparison relatively speaking

i mean if blair gets away with massacreing hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians in iraq and winds up being some peace ambassador while everyone else is getting offended by i dont like mondays, then we have a BIG problem and it aint BG's lyrics put it that way


 Agree 100% Joan



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