Hungary PM Wins Vote of Confidence

rekamarkovics · House on Fire

Hungary PM Wins Vote of Confidence

Katharina · Dave

Reka, I have a few questions about this!

Firstly, how is the situation now? During the riots, it was all over the news here (Germany) but the situation seems to have calmed down now, so we don't hear anything these days. Maybe you can sum it up in a few words?

Secondly, you wrote somewhere that you (nearly?) got into trouble with some people on the street because they knew your political opinion. How did they know? Can you tell by simply looking at people?

And also, are many young people interested in politics in Hungary? As far as I know, in most European countries young people actually are concerned about politics, but keep away from party politics, which is why it is usually stated that "young people don't care about politics anymore". The people who started the riots - were these young people, students? What about Gyurcsanys supporters - mainly young or older people? Or is age irrelevant in all this?

How about yourself and your friends, were you interested in politics before the riots?

Gyurcsany seems to have big identification potential for you - I find that interesting, that's why I'm asking!

rekamarkovics · House on Fire

I'l try, but it won't be just a few words. A lotof thing happenedd here in the last few weeks.

The situation is still worring because although Gyurcsany won the voto of confidence the oposite party started to hold demonstrations too. Their leader Orban (who I admired years ago, but not anymore) called people to come everday to the Parliament, becase they stil say that the Goverment is Ilegaly there.

Now Fidesz refuse to listen to the Prime Ministers speech and they won't participate in ceremonies if Gyucsany is there. (This is rather a childish thing to do) They also refuse to give interviews to the national television MTV (this is the building which was taken over for a few hours during the riots). The 50th Anniversary of the 1956 Revolution is coming and there will be two or three different ceremonies one normal and one for Fidesz. Strange it is getting to be a part of everyday life that there are seperated events.

The pople demontrating at Kossuth Square are said to be planing to shoot the PM on the 23rd. I'm realy worring about this especialy because not only Gyurcsany could be hurt, but Barroso, NATO Secretary General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer, Vatican secretary of state Cardinal Angelo Sodano, as well as kings, presidents and prime ministers of several European countries and a U.S delegation headed by New York State Governor George Pataki will also be there. So they could be in danger too.

I got into trouble because some fans of Orban can get realy angry when they notice that someone's view are different, because sonce 1998 or 2000 the ruling party Fidesz said somehing like if someone votes for MSZP than he or she is not a true Hungarian.

A day or two before the accident happened I was seen in the news beside Gyurcsany.

He visited Pecs and I gave him a Geldof & Rats CD and it was broadcasted on TV2 and ATV. And my details and photo are on the official page of the party.

http://www.mszp.hu/index.php?gcPage=public/portretar/listaPortrek&next=1160992994 http://www.mszp.hu/index.php?gcPage=public/portretar/mutatPortre&fnId=35512

Sometimes you can tell by looking that who votes for which party. Especialy if that party is Fidesz. Their voters usually were national collored and white ribbons. (I can't wear my MAKE POVERY HISTORY white band since they stoled the idea). They sometimes were t-shirts with I'm Hungarian not a tourist writen over it so they are liked to be recognised, but I never seen an MSZP fan walking around with a red carnation.

I don't have any problem with them. Everyone has a right to chose which party seems the best for him/her.

I don't think that a lot of teenagers are interested in politics, I have a friend and we argue a lot about the current situation. He adores Orban and he believes most thing he says so these arguments can get realy heated. (My guitar teacher left his girlfriend because she voted for MSZP.

)

I alway been interested in poltics. I'm member of FIB (Young left wing) It's realy great because they arange trips abroad and concerts.

I have read a lot of thing about Gyurcsany and a found that he is realy a nice guy.
(I don't know why is it a problem if a PM is rich?)
I meet him a couple of times. On Saturdays he usualy goes jogging and you can run with him and have a chat. You can write to him and a lot of times he answeres back.

In a few ways he resembles Geldof. In his speech he used more swear words like Bob.
(My personal story is: we must change this ****ing country otherwise who else will do?, "And I will write ****ing good books about the modern Hungarian Left.", "... that I make history. Not for the history textbooks. I don't give a **** for them.") It sound good from Bob, but not the best words from a PM, but stilll good to see the resemblance. He gives a lot of money to charity. He is a good bussiness man. Was in a band in the late 70's. Like Bob he grew up alone because his father disapeared for months and his mother spent most of the day at work. He is 188 cm (exactly like Bob) and thin. He is always doing something and gets bored easily. He is an Atheist.
(Unfortanately he didn't organise a charity concer, maybe the next time we meet I will tell him)

Maybe he is not the best PM, but definetly beter than Orban who is becoming rather a nationalist.

(I didn't expect somebody answering this post. I just sent it because ArGee said I can try to discuse it here. It's great to see that someone is interested )

-- Edited by rekamarkovics at 11:44, 2006-10-16

-- Edited by rekamarkovics at 11:46, 2006-10-16

Jules · The biggest Geldof fan in the world, bar none!

I'm also interested in the politics of other countries and the situation in Hungary right now. Only really bad news filters through, once 'immediate danger' has passed you have to dig deep to find out how situations are progessing.

The personal aspects of people's characters may not be so interesting to me, but you likening to Bob amused me and it is interesting to hear that he responds to most correspondence and can be stopped whilst out jogging.

Thanks

rekamarkovics · House on Fire

I'm intersted in how people from Britain and other countries see the situation in Hungary.

There is an internet site where you can find everithing about the current situation, but unfortunately it's in Hungarian.

Well Bob idefinetly still my No1 favourite, but right now I'm intereste in Gyurcsany too. It is easier to meet him than Bob.

Running with the AMOBA team:

Jules · The biggest Geldof fan in the world, bar none!

Tell us a bit more about the party politics, and what they stand for. How many main parties do you have? What are they all about? And what draws you to this party?

I'm always interested in other people's opinions and thoughts etc and how things work in other countries.

We have a very weird voting system in the UK. In a general election you vote for your party, but you are voting for them to gain the local seats. The most votes locally wins your MP that seat. Then the most seats nationally wins the election. There is only one round.

Smaller parties campaign for proportional representation, as this system is biast towards larger parties. PR means one person one vote, i.e. your vote counts directly towards the nations votes. I could probably explain that in more detail if you need to!

rekamarkovics · House on Fire

We have a lot of parties. (Every group wanst to form one.)

These are those with seats in the Hungarian National Assembly.

-The Hungarian Socialist Party (Magyar Szocialista Párt) is the main social democratic party that is ruling in a coalition with the Alliance of Free Democrats.

-The Alliance of Free Democrats (Szabad Demokraták Szövetsége) is a liberal democratic party that is part of the government led by the Hungarian Socialist Party

-The Fidesz – Hungarian Civic Union (Fidesz - Magyar Polgári Szövetség) is the main conservative opposition party

-Christian Democratic People's Party (Kereszténydemokrata Néppárt) is a small christian democratic party, closely allied to Fidesz.

-The Hungarian Democratic Forum (Magyar Demokrata Fórum) is a small conservative opposition party.

-The Association for Somogy (Somogyért), a local political party in Somogy.

, but there are a lot of minors aswell who didn't get into Parliament

Social Democratic Party (Szociáldemokrata Párt)
Hungarian Communist Workers' Party (Magyar Kommunista Munkáspárt)
Workers' Party of Hungary 2006 (Magyarországi Munkáspárt 2006)
Hungarian Democratic People's Party (Magyar Demokrata Néppárt), in 2005 become a part of the Hungarian Democratic Forum.Hungarian Pensioners Party (Magyar Nyugdíjasok Pártja )
National Democratic Party (Nemzeti Demokrata Párt)
Hungarian Justice and Life Party (Magyar Igazság és Élet Pártja)
Movement for a Better Hungary (Jobbik Magyarországért Mozgalom)
Centre Party (Centrumpárt)
Humanist Party (Humanista Párt)
Independent Smallholders, Agrarian Workers and Civic Party (Független Kisgazda, Földmunkás és Polgári Párt)
Hungarian Social Green Party (Magyar Szociális Zöld Párt)

We have a bizaree voting system too and I don't know if I could explain it, but I will try. It is a combination of proportional representation by party list, and first-past-the-post on the local basis. This is all I could find about it in English I tried to translate it from Hungarian, but it is hard.

MSZP is the part-successor of the communist Hungarian Socialist Workers' Party (or MSZMP), which ruled Hungary between 1956 and 1989. The decision to declare the party a successor of the MSZMP was controversial, and still haunts the MSZP. .

On economic issues, the Socialists are left of center, balancing between some liberal free market policies and socialist regulations. The party differentiates itself from its conservative opponents mainly by its rejection of nationalism, which it often tries to pin on its opponents. The party (together with its coalition partner) campaigned against extending Hungarian citizenship to ethnic Hungarians living in neighbouring countries in the December 5, 2004 referendum. Although claiming victory against the yes side, the party has been pressured to take steps towards reconciliation with Hungarian minorities abroad.

The party is a member of the Socialist International and the Party of European Socialists, as well as holding a chairmanship and several vice-chairmanships in the committees of the European Parliament). The party's democratic credentials and its ability to shed its past Communist cadres are questioned by Hungarian opponents. Internally, the party has a diversity of opinions, containing rival groups, e.g. both for and against Ferenc Gyurcsány. Current leaders of MSZP are contrasting today\'s MSZP to the communist MSZMP party they were all members of.

Its most internationally recognised politicians are Gyula Horn and László Kovács, currently Commissioner of the EU, responsible for taxes.

(from:en.wikipedia.org)

I was originaly a supporter of Fidesz years ago, but the party was getting more and more nacionalist and I didn't like their idea that who doesn't vote for them is not Hungarian. Thats why I first found MSZP which was the oposite of Fidesz. And then Gyurcsany shoved up with a plan which I though sounds better then the other ones. He seemed the most open minded and European.

http://www.miniszterelnok.hu/domain2/files/modules/module25/fileok/New_Hungary_Program.pdf

http://www.miniszterelnok.hu/domain2/files/modules/module25/fileok/New_Hungary_Program.pdf

Katharina · Dave

Reka, thanks for your long and interesting answers! I can see a few words just wouldn't have been enough - as usual in politics, really!

I'm starting to understand why you find Gyurcsany fascinating - NOT because of any similarities to Bob, lol! We hardly have young politicians here and none of the four chancellors that were in power since I've been alive had any identification potential at all! At least to me, and I'm not an unpolitical person. It's just that they all seem to be boring, lacking that certain spirit...

I'm worried about so many extreme right/ nationalist parties and supporters everywhere in Europe. We have the same problem here (they're not in the parliament, and won't ever be I hope) and too many people refuse to see a problem there.

Our (Germany's) electoral system is a mixture of majority voting system and proportional representation system, too. It's based on the constitution that was put up in 1949. In general elections, every German citizen over 18 years of age has two votes. With one, we vote for local candidates. They - 299 people, one from each of the electoral districts - are one half of the total number of the members of parliament are (598 people). For the other half, we vote for a party. The parties' list candidates are sent to parliament, too.

The parliament (which is called the Bundestag) decides about laws and elects a chancellor. Usually, the party who has won the most votes suggest a chancellor and the Bundestag follows this suggestion. The chancellor (the current one is called Angela Merkel, the first female chancellor ever) forms the government. In the last elections in September 2005, the two biggest parties gained roughly the same amount of votes, which is why the government is a coalition of the two biggest parties, the CDU/CSU (Christian Democrats) and the SPD (Social Democrats). The opposition in the Bundestag are (in order of the amount of people): FDP (Free Democrats, a liberal party); Die Linke. (extreme left; a large amount of their followers are from former East Germany) and Bündnis 90/Die Grünen (the Green Party).

The extreme right party, NPD (National Party), is in the local parliament in two federal states of Germany (both in former East Germany). I dread the day when they gain seats in the Bundestag. All democratic parties have the responsibility to avoid that, but with more and more unemployment and growing frustration I don’t know if it can be avoided. I also think that this country hasn’t yet come to terms with its very recent past – a socialist regime with violation of human rights, censorship, torture etc. The wall that divided Germany until 15 years ago is still there in many people’s heads. - No idea if anyone's interested in any of this, lol!

What’s the situation in Hungary, Reka? Is there an academic discussion about your country’s recent past? A non-academic one? How do people feel about it? And how do you, as a very young person, think about it?

rekamarkovics · House on Fire

There are a lot of arguments about Hungary's past. Trianon and other thing. And especialy about the years of Communism. A lot of todays leading poliiticians from both sides were members of KISZ the Organisation of Young Communists. Gyurcsany was also a member and he was one of the first who had admited it. And his wife's grandad was a hated poltical figure. But she (Klara) is a realy nice person so I think that is what realy matters not his grandparents. I know that a lot of people diagree with my statemnet.

A lot of people hate MSZP because of this, although the party changed a lot. It focuses on the West instead of the East now and they tresure the freedom of speech. They and their voters want to forget the past and concentrate on the future.

While others including MIEP, and it seems now Fidesz still live in the past sometimes. They want to get back those parts to Hungary which were taken away after the First World War. I lot of people demonstrating at Kossuth Square are dressed in historical cloths and wawe old historical flags. So nationalism is getting stronger here to and It's scary to hear that they talk about hanging people who desagree with them. Yes it's thrue our negbour the drummer who I wrote about talked about it. He heardit a Fidesz meetings. That is why I was so afraid when they stormed and took over the building of MTV.

Another worring thing is the groving antisemitism. I was on the bus when a car passed us and the men sitting it shouted to us that "You are heading to Auschwitz!"
(these people hate Gyurcsany because he is Jewish)

In a way I understand some of them for voting against MSZP.Because the old party MSZMP was dictatorical and they have bad memories of that time, but they need to understand that it is now a completly different party. MSZP changed a lot since 1989.

Unfortunately so did Fidesz from liberal and open minded group of young people to conservative nationalists.

(I know that Gyurcsany is not the greatest politcian, but do you realy think that he is bad because he is rich?)

Are there same thing happening or did happen in your country?

A little Geldofish moment. The PM in Banda Aceh, Indonesia.

http://static.flickr.com/102/273027363_a795cc0159_o.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/115/273027362_50984413cc_o.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/100/273027365_d17d4972c9_o.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/106/273027369_231de94137_o.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/81/273045577_d7c1839a14_o.jpg

I would realy like to see Geldof meeting Gyurcsany. I wonder what would that be like?

-- Edited by rekamarkovics at 13:24, 2006-10-18

Jules · The biggest Geldof fan in the world, bar none!

We do have some extreme right wing groups and one issue parties, however, with not having any PR in our voting system it prevents them from getting too big. It doesn't sound very democratic but it keeps them at bay!

The racism you are witnessing Reka is pretty shocking. We have problems here too.

It was interesting to hear about both countries and how they compare to the UK and with each other.

rekamarkovics · House on Fire

I hope nothing will go wrong next Monday.

56 foreign politicians, royalties are coming to Budapest and today a protestor said that it will end in cathastrophy and that they will shoot Gyurcsany.

Jules · The biggest Geldof fan in the world, bar none!

I hope you have good security there. That is awful.

rekamarkovics · House on Fire

I just saw it on TV that there were a neo-nazi demontration in Berlin.

This is awful that this could happen. I'm not agianst the freedom of speech, but these groups are hurting people with their ideals. I hope non of them will have the power to do it.

The crowd were seprated today with a wall so I hope they won't shoot anyone. A few of them are just getting too far. One of them said that Gyurcsany should be hang.

And all this because he admited that he lied. Anyone could name a poltician who never lied?

rekamarkovics · House on Fire

We all just wanted the celebrate the anniversary of a revolution, but the official ceremones were interupted by protesters. The peacful protesters couldn't get home because the violent ones blocked the roads.

It's happening again. This time one of the reporters said this is war now. A policeman was stabed and few more are injured.

A building was burning a few kilometers from our house. I'm alright ,but worried and scared.

A small crowd tried to attack the Prime Minister at the official ceremony, fortunately he was taken away before they could get close to him. He looked awfull:thin,tired, pale, his hands were shaking, he couldn't talk and strugled not to cry. Poor Feri. Well at least he is alive and safe.

I realy feel sorry for those too who just wanted to remember and celebrate.

Jules · The biggest Geldof fan in the world, bar none!

Reka

I'm sorry your country can't be peaceful right now. Why can't people ever learn violence never wins anything?

rekamarkovics · House on Fire

A quote from Bob:
I just don't think the violence will achieve anything. The debt campaigners have never been violent, and they have achieved a lot.

I wonder if Bob is watching it. I realy would like to know what is his opinion.

I'm fed up. I wan't peace and I don't think that could be achieved by the PM stepping down.

These people have to accept that this is not the same as in 1956 and Gyurcsany is not Rakosi. .

Scottie · Loudmouth

I have been watching the pictures on the news. It looks terrifying. Keep strong, keep safe, stand up for what you believe.

rekamarkovics · House on Fire

I would like to stand up for my beliefs, but I'm afraid that they will hit me. A man shouted "Long live Gyurcsany!" and the mob almost killed him. You just can't say nothing postive about Gyurcsany, because they don't let you. These people hate him so much. It hurts to see how people want to kill one of your idols. Just because he did like any other politician: lied.

At a part meeting someone from MSZP suggested that we should stay home watch TV, read a book or go to the park, just don't demonstrate against the violent demonstration.
Just keep calm and do nothing

Originaly I wanted to go to Budapest because I thought that there will be a peacful ceremony, with kings, presidents and prime ministers, but fortunately I changed my mind after the protester toldthat they will shoot.

-- Edited by rekamarkovics at 11:25, 2006-10-24

Katharina · Dave

It's all over the news here too. They said hundreds of injured, eight severely, and many arrests. Good you didn't go Budapest, Reka, you might be in the middle of it! I hope the peaceful demonstrators are stronger in the end than the violent mob...

rekamarkovics · House on Fire

I talked to a few people (including the Prime Minister) about in on forums. Like me they all feel sad and ashamed after what happened, but this time infront of a global audience.

I was frightened last night when Gyurcsany was almost attacked.

Originaly he was banned from attanding the ceremony because of the danger of being shot, but after Solyom refused to participate in the event he had to go to pay tribute to the victims. He was on his knees while the protesters were shouting and were triying to attack him. They almost used him as a human target.

Another frightening part was when 6 fire engine appeared. A building was burning close to our house. Fortunately they managed to put out the fire in time so we didn't have to get out of the house.

rekamarkovics · House on Fire

Hungary opposition resumes anti-government protest Fri 2 Feb 2007 15:07:37 GMT

(Updates protest numbers)

By Andras Gergely

BUDAPEST, Feb 2 (Reuters) - MPs from Hungary's main centre-right opposition party on Friday dismantled barriers outside parliament in an attempt to revive protests against the country's Socialist-led government.

The barricade was erected on Oct. 23 last year to prevent demonstrators camped outside parliament from disrupting celebrations of the 50th anniversary of Hungary's anti-Soviet uprising after two months of street protests.

Fidesz called its operation on Friday an act of "civil disobedience" and party chief Viktor Orban said Fidesz would keep removing the barriers every day if police put them back.

"It is an impossible situation that the police take an unconstitutional measure with the government's support and this remains in force for months," Orban said after giving instructions to his MPs to move the barriers.

Fidesz had been holding a party meeting inside parliament, which is not in session.

Initially police did not intervene as 120 Fidesz MPs with wrenches dismantled the barrier and stacked it in the square, but later police in riot gear ringed the parliament building and rebuilt the barricade.

A crowd of just a few tens of people had swelled to around 500 people by mid-afternoon according to MTI news agency, some of them waving red and white striped flags associated with the far-right.

SOCIALISTS CONDEMN OPPOSITION

The square was the scene of mass protests last year against Socialist Prime Minister Ferenc Gyurcsany after he admitted in a leaked tape to lying about the state of the budget to win April's parliamentary elections.

After winning the election, Gyurcsany imposed higher taxes and increased energy prices in an attempt to rein in Hungary's budget deficit, which at 10 percent of gross domestic product is the biggest in the EU.

Hundreds of police and protesters were hurt in the worst clashes since communism ended in 1989 and more protests have been promised to coincide with the March 15 national day, traditionally a day of dissent under communism.

Gyurcsany said Fidesz risked inciting further violence.

"Members of parliament should be especially careful about what they do as their example could be contagious," he said.

Political analysts said that the highly visible action on Friday was mainly about showing Orban and Fidesz could provide leadership after reports of rifts within the party due to a failure to capitalise on the Socialists' unpopularity.

"Orban had to do this to send a message to those dissatisfied with him in the opposition that he can act," said political analyst Zoltan Kiszelly at the Hungarian Academy of Sciences.