Rats to Sue Geldof

Derek The Dane · V Deep

Rats to Sue Geldof

iluvbobgeldof · Never In A Million Years

what is everyones opinions on this? how much do you think they want in royalties?

Cindy · She's So Modern

wow...that was unexpected. i don't know the whole story so it's hard to have any decent thoughts on it- only seen the BBC artical. I guesse they won't be playing at Live8 then!

_johanna_ · Drag Me Down

my first respons was very "don't be mean to Bob", and I thought to myself "oh, so now they're broke and want to sue Bob for as much money as they can get." Most songs are after all credited to Geldof or Geldof/Briquette, so I'm not sure how much chance they have of winning this? Because they're only after the money right?

Well...If Bob ows them money I suppose they should get it, but it just feels a bit sad..(although I'm glad atleast Pete is on Bobs side..) :-/

MMbullybuddyGP · Drag Me Down

I find the whole thing disappointing and a little shocking. If Bob really does owe the Rats money, that in itself is not cool on Bob's part. He doesn't seem the type to not pay back what he owes to whomever, but I could be wrong. If the Rats (excluding Briquette, obviously) are just trying to bring Bob down from the pinnacle of his priorities because they have some bad blood with him, that's immature of the Rats. Whether their accusations are true or false, I still think it's quite lousy of the Rats to choose this time to sue Bob...at least wait till Live 8's over... And, if they really do deserve to win money from him, why not sue earlier? Why 2005 and not in the late 80s or even early 90s? Hm.

I'm very curious to read other opinions about this, please post 'em.

-- Edited by MMbullybuddyGP at 21:04, 2005-06-15

Jules · The biggest Geldof fan in the world, bar none!

It's hard to say without knowing the facts probably, so I would reserve any judgement.

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/music/4092722.stm

In a statement released by Cott, who quit the band in 1981, they said: "We jointly confirm that with the utmost regret we are pressing ahead with our claims against Bob Geldof and others for our rightful entitlement to a proper share of recording, publishing and merchandising income. We have retained the London solicitor Angel and Co to act on our behalf and anticipate that proceedings will have to be issued shortly. We have no further comment at this stage."

Bang goes the reunion!

Jules · The biggest Geldof fan in the world, bar none!

There was no chance before, now there is absolutely no chance at all...

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

Is it really Garrick Roberts?

Ian · House on Fire

RE: Rats to Sue Geldof

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

I think the rest of the band are right to sue....

Jules · The biggest Geldof fan in the world, bar none!

RE: Rats to Sue Geldof

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

Jules wrote:

I wondered why they hadn't done this sooner, why now?

Well, they just sold a load of re-issues on CD and they haven't seen any ca$h! It's possible it's one of those gross percentage deals that means they don't get anything!

Jules · The biggest Geldof fan in the world, bar none!

Yes that did occur to me, but that was never in sight years ago, so why not then if they felt so strongly then?

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

Jules wrote:

Yes that did occur to me, but that was never in sight years ago, so why not then if they felt so strongly then?

I guess that since 1986 the Rats back-catalogue wasn't really sold, so there was little money to be made, and probably back then the money spilt was fairer as they would have been splitting the gig money.

But as all the money now goes to the writer, and they have shifted a significant amount of units with the re-releases there is something worth fighting for.

Interesting precedent here. Words by Morrissey, Music by Marr.....

http://www.morrissey-solo.com/news/1999/283.shtml

but then again,

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/dotmusic_news/10275.html

Devoto · Lookin' After Number 1

I'm really not very surprised, and neither am i sure its unfair of the band to sue Geldof . I've always felt that the rats were highly, and much more than other bands from the late 70's, driven by the extremly talented and skilled musicans, more than the songs in themselves. A lot of their best songs - fx one of my own favourites, Living on an Island, is in fact more of a clever, complex and creative rarrangement than a melody. No doubt that Geldof was a superb writer and frontman, but i have strong feeling that the band should have more credits for the songwriting than they actually got.

That was perhaps not an big thing back in 79, when they actually earned money, but with the re-releases, i guess they fully understood what theye missed. T

AuntieFifi · Mary of the 4th Form

"In a statement released by Cott, who quit the band in 1981, they said: "We jointly confirm that with the utmost regret we are pressing ahead with our claims against Bob Geldof and others for our rightful entitlement to a proper share of recording, publishing and merchandising income. We have retained the London solicitor Angel and Co to act on our behalf and anticipate that proceedings will have to be issued shortly. We have no further comment at this stage.""

My view is that this has been stoked up by the press. I guess that this claim has been in the background for a while - I seem to remember Simon Crowe being quoted a few months ago about the same issue - but the press have decided to report on it now. Note the reference to "pressing ahead", which implies to me that it is an ongoing situation rather than something "new".

I've noticed on the BBC website a lot of anti-Bob reporting over the last week or so (Lord Steel, etc.), which seems to me to be out of context with what is actually going on here. Surely they should be focusing on the G8 summit and the issues around that rather than Bob.

Whatever the true position, it is all very sad.

Mark Boyle · House on Fire

Derek The Dane wrote:

I have just read on the bbc that the former Boomtown Rats members are going to sue Bob Geldof for royalties.Sham Sham Shimmey Sham.

Well they've been trying this on for umpteen years.

I expect this to be as successful as any of the others - ie. not an ice-cube's chance in hell.

Jules · The biggest Geldof fan in the world, bar none!

It does beg the question, why didn't they get themselves a better deal way back then?

joegravellese · Rat Trap

I certainly don't think Bob is a saint by any stretch, but as much as I love all of the Rats, I can't help but think that the Rats got very jealous of the attention Geldof got with Band Aid/Live Aid in the mid 80s and frustrated that his fame didn't carry over to Rats success and, therefore, money for them, and probably blamed Bob for this. This bitterness has probably carried over, and now they are suing because of the recent reissues, and yes , to steal Bob's g8 thunder. But I think they have no chance to win, Bob is credited as the song writer, if they had a part, they should have made sure they were put in, if not, shame on them I guess.

Surely Bob isn't 100% fault-free, maybe I'm just so on his side because I'm so proud of him right now after yesterday, but I really don't think this suit by the Rats has any chance of success.

Quite honestly, I'm more disappointed and kind of heartbroken than anything that these old buddies who became the greatest band I've ever known now squabble.

Mark Boyle · House on Fire

The way the band worked would be Bob wrote the stuff on his acoustic guitar, then the rest of the band breathed life into what he came up with, adding their bits in.

In other bands, such as the Stranglers, one of the guys would come up with a basic tune & lyric (usually Hugh or JJ), the others would add their bit in, & everyone would get a credit, since of course only Jet could play drums, only Dave keyboards, and only Hugh/JJ guitars & sing! There were exceptions - such as "Waltzinblack" (all done by Dave), "Lies & Deception" (by Jet) & a number that were all Hugh or JJ - but to save arguments everyone involved got an equal credit.

This was to be one of the sticking points with Gerry, when he got to the stage he wanted his stuff to be recorded too, but it was decided they weren't good enough, except for "Keep It Up" co-written with Bob, & "Man At The Top" as a B-Side. Johnny would certainly have featured far more on the credits for Rats recordings as "Sleep" & "She's So Modern" showed, were it not for his own self-admitted laziness.

Whether they accept it or not, they've been the masters of their own misfortune in this.

TsarinaRyan9 · Lookin' After Number 1

I am new to this forum, but certainly not to the Rats. Been with 'em since 1982, maybe even 1980. I have no idea how I came upon them in Iowa, 25 years ago {now I feel old}. I feel a bit sheepish posting this opinion as the first, but here it goes:
bear in mind, while I know the Rats' stuff inside and out, I have never had any opportunity to collect video and interview stuff, so I am probably wrong completely on some points.
Why did they come forward right now? A good question.
There are a good deal more negative statements being thrown around in the press about Geldof, is this for the first time?? I don't live in the UK.
Maybe the Rats are trying to tell us something about Geldof on a personal level....
If indeed he has truly been ignoring all attempts at communication {as claimed by Fingers, I believe} then that would seem to be a statement in and of itself.
The fact that he has been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize would seem like the worst time to be bringing a lawsuit down onto him, and that leaves me open to think they wanted to use the publicity to show people another side of Geldof.

Sometimes one must listen to what is not being said to see a greater picture.

Hello, I'm Tsarina
Sincerely,
Ts

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

TsarinaRyan9 wrote:

Why did they come forward right now? A good question.

They came forward now because the Boomtown Rats Albums were all released on CD (+ Best of) and shifted a fair number of units. So there is a fair amount of ca$h at stake. Whereas between 1986 and 2003 the Rats sold next to nothing so it was hardly worth the bother. The story goes that the other Rats let Geldof predominately have the songwriting credits, but still expected royalties as performers.

There are a good deal more negative statements being thrown around in the press about Geldof, is this for the first time??

No. Geldof has attracted a negative press since 1977, and probably peaked around 1980 at the height of the Bob/Paula relationship. Even around 1985 a lot of the sentiments voiced today were around (low represenatation of black artists, will the aid help?, etc.). On the whole, the press is nicer to him nowadays as he is seen as a caring father, the wronged husband and a humanitarian. Back in 1985, his involvement in Band Aid/Live Aid was seen as a cynical ploy to resurrect his music career (not something he is particularly known for anymore )

Maybe the Rats are trying to tell us something about Geldof on a personal level....

They have tried, but no one listens! Only the very observant would have come upon Gerry Cott's and Simon Crowe's comments in the press, and in the case of Cott, it requires some reading between the lines.

Tango · In the Long Grass

thats stupid.i keep seing this artical on sites.its been on the net for ages but nothings happened yet

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

Tango wrote:

thats stupid.i keep seing this artical on sites.its been on the net for ages but nothings happened yet

Given it's three months since the original post/action, and that there was a two month deadline for Geldof to explain his side of the story before royalties were withheld, I suspect that a deal has been done, or the lawyers are feverishly preparing their briefs.

In my own sick and twisted mind (eh, Franna ) I hope it does go to the court. It'll be the last chance I get to see the Rats!

Rats in 1979

Court Case

Rats in 2006

Jules · The biggest Geldof fan in the world, bar none!

ArrGee I love your emoticons explanation. Sooo funny!

I was wondering what was happening about this. I wonder if we have any light shed soon?

franna · V Deep

ArrGee wrote:

Given it's three months since the original post/action, and that there was a two month deadline for Geldof to explain his side of the story before royalties were withheld, I suspect that a deal has been done, or the lawyers are feverishly preparing their briefs. In my own sick and twisted mind (eh, Franna ) I hope it does go to the court. It'll be the last chance I get to see the Rats!

Depending on the amount in question, I hope they've settled quickly - if only to prevent the lawyers being the only ones who get a payout.

As far as pure, disinterested, voyeur value is concerned, I suppose a court appearance would make for better television. Hey - how about a reality show of the court proceeding? They could all get paid! (BG - if you take this idea and run with it, I want 5% of gross.)

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

franna wrote:

I suppose a court appearance would make for better television. Hey - how about a reality show of the court proceeding? They could all get paid! (BG - if you take this idea and run with it, I want 5% of gross.)

Can't cover court proceeding on TV in the UK. You have to attend to see it. Even on the news they can only show sketches.

- Bob's Lawyer calling him

- Bob's reaction to the action

- Johnnie, Gerry, Garrick and Simon

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

Tango wrote:

where do you get all these emoticons from arrgee?

They abound on the www.

http://dialspace.dial.pipex.com/town/estate/py22/emoticons/

http://www.strummernews.com/band.gif Four Rats

http://www.strummernews.com/guitar.gif Gerry Cott

http://www.smily.at/smily/smily1347.gif Johnnie Fingers

ArrGee1991 · Dave

Come on, let's get this case on! I want the Rats reunion!

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/music/article-23367570-details/Geldof+told+he's+a+royalties+Rat/article.do

Sir Bob Geldof is facing a potential multi-million-pound lawsuit from two former members of the Boomtown Rats, who claim he owes them unpaid royalties.

Garrick Roberts and Johnnie 'Fingers' Moylett, who co-founded the band, say they have not received any royalties since the group disbanded in 1986.

They claim a contract drawn up in the 1980s has been ignored and no one but Geldof has profited.

Roberts said: 'During the 1980s, we signed an agreement saying songwriting royalties would be split - with 50 per cent going to the writer and 50 per cent going to the other band members. But when the band split up none of us, bar Geldof, heard anything.

'We weren't given any control over the songs and haven't received a penny,' added the 56-year-old, who now works as a plumber in Herefordshire.

'Johnnie and I decided to look into the situation, so we appointed solicitors to ask Bob Geldof and the accountants dealing with the band where the royalties have gone.

'Every time one of our songs appears on a greatest hits album, money is generated - but I haven't seen any of it.' Geldof was unavailable for comment last night.

Mark Boyle · House on Fire

Oh ho ho...so it's just Garrick Roberts & Johnnie now, is it?

(Garrick? Bloody hell, he becomes a plumber & gets all la-di-da...it's like that Monty Python sketch with the working class writer calling his son a stuck up ponce for becoming a coal miner!).

So...what happened to Gerry Cott & Simon Crowe's part in all this then? Dropped out have they, knowing a lost cause when they see one?

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

Mark Boyle wrote:

So...what happened to Gerry Cott & Simon Crowe's part in all this then? Dropped out have they, knowing a lost cause when they see one?

I'm surprised this is still going on. Well over a year since it all started, so I thought it was all settled out of court. I wouldn't have thought Geldof earns that much through royalties (The Rats don't get played on radio, and record sales can't be that big). Still 10% of what he does earn would probably keep me in beer for a while.

Jules · The biggest Geldof fan in the world, bar none!

That's weird. The last we saw was that it had to be sorted in so many days, or go to court. That amount of days went months ago.

ArrGee what about the royalties from the 70s, they must have been worth a bit - and would interest have accrued

by now?

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

Jules wrote:

ArrGee what about the royalties from the 70s, they must have been worth a bit - and would interest have accrued by now?

Obviously, I am not privy to this information, but from what I understand, there was some form of arrangement in place whilst the Rats were actively recording/performing. Geldof was smart enough to take the songwriting credit, even though others in the band turned his basic tune into the finished recording. Certainly, Fingers (particularly on FAoS onwards) and Cott (up to FAoS) made a lot of contribution to the arrangements and enhanced the songs (I remember a long lost interview with Cott when he began his solo career that said this). Simon Crowe probably made less of a contribution, though he did write the music for Clockwork with Pete Briquette. As for Garrick Roberts, he neve had a songwriting contribution, so I'm not sure how much he did. Though his comments in recent days have been entertaining.

"He was always much more of a self publicist than the rest of us. He's learned to use his fame. It's what he's about now."

http://www.contactmusic.com/news.nsf/article/boomtown%20rats%20sue%20geldof%20over%20unpaid%20royalties_1009126

[NOTE: Pete Briquette was also very active in the arrangements, but as he is not suing Geldof, that is not relevant]

Jules · The biggest Geldof fan in the world, bar none!

I wonder if Pete got his share!

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

Jules wrote:

I wonder if Pete got his share!

Who knows? But it's hard to sue when you are on the payroll. Also Pete had a few more co-credits, so may well get some royalty cash anyway. Add to that production and performer

Quite possible that Simon (Clockwork)/Gerry(Keep It Up)/Johnnie(Sleep) all got a little bit of cash as writers/co-writers, but probably not that much. Garrick would get nowt!