Farewell Comrades

spc1970 · Rat Trap

Farewell Comrades

meekus · Tonight

I thought I was a jerk...

motema2004 · Tonight

Way to go, guys!!!!!

oeokosko · House on Fire

spc1970 wrote:

I grow tired of this conversation. I have shown you people to be communists, thought terrorists, and, frankly, a bit slow on the uptake. There is no need to thank me for my time. Regards, Cap E. Tilism

The gnat and the bull

A gnat settled on a bull's horn. After a while the gnat asked the bull, "Do you mind if I go now?" The bull replied, unconcerned, "It's all the same to me: I didn't notice you when you came, and I won't notice when you've gone."

LiberalLepton · She's So Modern

It is so sad when a supporter of a communist terrorist fails to notice your comments by taking enough notice to write a psuedo-witty reply.

oeokosko · House on Fire

Haha! Try this for terrorism http://www.soaw.org/new/type.php?type=8

meekus · Tonight

I'm wondering if you've heard of the singer David Rovics. He is an Independant musician who doesn't like either side of American politics today. His style is acoustic folk. He has a song that is about shutting down the SOA. Take a listen: http://www.soundclick.com/util/DownloadSong.cfm?ID=1124795 (Song for the SOA #2)

His full site is just http://www.davidrovics.com.

motema2004 · Tonight

I visited Dave's site, being new to me. SOA, Condi's selling but El Salvador/OAS isn't buying. Times have changed.

meekus · Tonight

Most of that music isn't up to most recent data. But it's not too far off.

oeokosko · House on Fire

Thanks meekus, I wasn't aware of the song or the singer. Good to know that the tradition of Woodie Guthrie, Pete Seeger, the young Bob Dylan, Tom Paxton, and others lives on. One of my favourites from that time is "What did you learn in school today?". Timeless lyrics.

I came across this yesterday. It may interest you, it is about a performance given by David Rovics in Sussex, England this month. http://froots.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=415

There are some recordings of live performances on DR's site that give a flavour of how his songs are received.

meekus · Tonight

Picture this: wouldn't it be interesting if Sir Bob asked David Rovics to play at Live 8?

It won't happen, but an interesting thought.

oeokosko · House on Fire

I understand what you say. Musicians with a politcal message and a simple form of delivery work most effectively in an intimate environment but I think that, what with everything else going on in at Live8 that day, even the most music-orientated audience members may be receptive to a political rantfest. It would indeed be interesting.

Rovics will be performing in Edinburgh on 2 July anyway at the 'Grass Roots Music For A Better World' event: http://www.thequeenshall.net/whatson/info.php?id=283

LiberalLepton · She's So Modern

So... your support of a terrorist is justified by the SOA? Kinda sophomoric reasoning. You point out the spot of sawdust in my eye while ignoring the plank of wood in yours:

"Mine commie terrorist is ok because I think your school is really, really, really bad."

-oeokosko (06/25/05)

Please, I grow weary of these played out liberal arguments. Have you no shame? Try to rise to the occation. Maybe two or three of you communists could put your minds together to get up to my level.

motema2004 · Tonight

School of the Americas (SOA) is a US organization that trained Guatemalan soldiers to kill suspected revolutionaries, among other things, who were Mayan Indians--most of whom were innocent. It's a group of mercenaries. The terrorist part is when they come to take you away in the middle of the night and you "disappear." You don't have to be a communist to figure out that something called School of the Americas is a form of terrorism i.e. preying on people's fears.The School of the Americas trains police of various nations to use fear tactics; their style is often seen in use by strongarm governments all over the world including Africa and at this point in time, as we concentrate on human rights issues and poverty, the School of the Americas is not something to be proud of. If you take that as a communist viewpoint, sorry!!

-- Edited by motema2004 at 22:18, 2005-06-27

oeokosko · House on Fire

1) LiberalLepton clearly doesn't recognise an Aesop fable when he/she sees one.

2) Who said Che Guevara was a terrorist? He took up the struggle against American imperialism and is widely regarded throughout Latin America as a freedom fighter. Quite rightly so.

3) LiberalLepton is clearly spc1970 - the attitude and the language are the same. There's no need to say goodbye again.

LiberalLepton · She's So Modern

I'm wondering if you even listen to yourselves. You seem to be equating the USA with terrorist supporting states. Do you lump the US in with Iran, Lybia, Syria, N. Korea and the others? And please, answer the question... don't do the leftist jitterbug this time.

By the way, people who support the suppression of free trade and independent thinking are communists. Those that display pictures of Che Guevara are not only communists, but also display a callous indifference to the suffering of others.

The cult of Che Guevara is an episode in the moral callousness of our time. Che was a totalitarian. He achieved nothing but disaster. Many of the early leaders of the Cuban Revolution favored a democratic or democratic-socialist direction for the new Cuba. But Che was a mainstay of the hardline pro-Soviet faction, and his faction won. Che presided over the Cuban Revolution's first firing squads. He founded Cuba's "labor camp" system—the system that was eventually employed to incarcerate gays, dissidents, and AIDS victims.

What a hero!!! Talk about concentrating on human rights issues!!!

Lets not forget his famous utterance:

"Hatred as an element of struggle; unbending hatred for the enemy, which pushes a human being beyond his natural limitations, making him into an effective, violent, selective, and cold-blooded killing machine. This is what our soldiers must become …"

meekus · Tonight

First: an earlier post - "You point out the spot of sawdust in my eye while ignoring the plank of wood in yours." Nice use of Jesus. I don't see any real point in that post but to bash those against you. Very nice...

North Korea is not a terrorist regime government as Afghanistan once was.

If I support the protest of a business putting up a new building, I'm a Communist, no matter the circumstances. How very narrow-minded of you.

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. If you were born and raised under the same circumstances as people in his day, you'd understand better what Che was doing. And you call it a cult? Can I call Bush supporters a cult for believing in war to create democracy and change on foreign land? With your reasoning, yes.

And when was this about human rights issues? What about the death sentence? Lethal injection? It is done in America progressively more and more every year since Bush went into office. If you would like to get into that further, please continue. (Hopefully) You'll only realize that each side of the table has its good and bad points.

Does hate not drive Israelies to kill Palestinians? Pakistanis to kill Indians? Americans to kill Iraqis? Again, it swings both ways.

And if you are SPC1970, then why do you try to hide it?

oeokosko · House on Fire

Well said meekus but it is pointless trying to engage such people in rational argument. They see the world only in black and white, us and them, 'good' and 'evil', and their currency is hate and instilling fear. In their irrational world they attribute ideas and quotes to their opponents and then attack them on that basis. I've met these people before on forums and their delusional and paranoid view of the world is really no different from that of fundamental Islamists or Stalinist Communists in that none of them can tolerate opposing views. And if they come across as fascists then that's because that's what they are.

For the record, Cuba turned to the Soviet Union after the US cut off the sugar quota, thereby denying Cuba foreign income, and started to undertake overt and covert actions against Cuba.

-- Edited by oeokosko at 09:23, 2005-06-28

LiberalLepton · She's So Modern

Not trying to hide anything. You guys must be Dick Tracy and Colombo or maybe Crocket and Tubbs for figuring out that one. Wow!!

First: an earlier post - "You point out the spot of sawdust in my eye while ignoring the plank of wood in yours." Nice use of Jesus. I don't see any real point in that post but to bash those against you. Very nice...

Well thank you Meekus. I have a new found confidence that you can be turned from the dark side. [Where's that from hotshot?]

North Korea is not a terrorist regime government as Afghanistan once was.

Boy, tell that to the millions of N. Korean citizens that are being starved to death (obviously due to US foreign policy). Tap, tap, tap... the sound of you two still dancing around the question. I'll ask it real slow this time for you:

D-o Y-o-u l-u-m-p t-h-e U-S i-n w-i-t-h I-r-a-n, L-y-b-i-a, S-y-r-i-a, N. K-O-R-E-A a-n-d a-l-l t-h-e o-t-h-e-r-s ?

If I support the protest of a business putting up a new building, I'm a Communist, no matter the circumstances. How very narrow-minded of you.

I'm not sure where you are going with this... never said that nor did I imply that... I wish you'd just Respect my Athorita!! [Where's that from Hotshot]

They see the world only in black and white, us and them, 'good' and 'evil'

But my doctor says my color vision is good. I do need to wear glasses however. Do you have an example of something that you'd consider evil? Or is it all a matter of perspective?

And when was this about human rights issues?

I didn't introduce human rights, your Che-man did (as we concentrate on human rights issues and poverty). And what do you care if I bring human rights into this discussion.... you brought animal rights into with your PETA-proganda.

And Che-man, you didn't address the labor camps issue... all you continue to say is AMERICA BAD, CHE GOOD. Educate me and the rest of the people, tell me what good Che did. Please don't go into a rant about the possibilities of socialism, like your buddy, or a diatribe about the imperialistic suppression of the USA. Tell me of the revolutionary's countries that have solid economies and solid human rights records, and lets not forget animal rights. Give an example of one country that Che blessed with his person or ideas that is a place you'd like to live. I suspect I'll be getting the ol' soft shoe on this question, but I hope you at least try.

Bottom line: The USA is the greatest place to live this world has ever seen, you two are twisted communists, and Che was nothing but a thug.

How you like them apples [where's that from Hotshot]

) Who said Che Guevara was a terrorist? He took up the struggle against American imperialism and is widely regarded throughout Latin America as a freedom fighter. Quite rightly so.

meekus · Tonight

As to all of the hotshot comments, I was pointing out your audacity to quote our Lord and savior Jesus Christ in a political argument - on the verge of sacrilige.

Just because people starve, it does not mean that government is run by terrorists. For a relevant exhibit, look to Africa. They're not terrorists, just terrible leaders with no economic sense. People starve in America too. Does that mean Bush is a terrorist? No.

And no, I do not put the U.S. in with those nations, because thay are each so different from each other, that it can't all be one group. How can you possibly generalize nations so far apart, different in culture, life, food, religion, and forms of government as "I-r-a-n, L-y-b-i-a, S-y-r-i-a, N. K-O-R-E-A a-n-d a-l-l t-h-e o-t-h-e-r-s"? They are only alike due to their dictatorships, and those differ more than you care to realize or are willing to admit.

Isn't everything a matter of perspective? But if you want to go down that road, then the philosophy you find yourself with is one where everything is in perspective, making everything pointless and frivilously wasted. I prefer to think I'm right and you're wrong, but it's still in perspectives.

Again, I in no way support PETA. That was not propaganda. That was bad men doing what they do best, make money. The dark nature is what they were doing. I have no affiliation to PETA. Concerned friends of mine showed me that video, and I saw relevance in earliers talks of Capitalistic societies. That said, human rights are different from animals rights - unless you expect to be eaten for food. How was it propoganda, by the way? Because they reported and showed what people don't want to see or hear? What corporate conglomerates don't like because sales will drop? Animals were skinned alive and left for dead just so their skins could be sold to people with more money than they are willing to give up, with the money going to other people who become progressively richer. Here's the link again: http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/video.asp?video=wetseal_fur&Player=wm&speed=_med. Animals are grabbed by their tails and beaten to the ground, face first, to soften them up. Then thay are hung face down, their skins literally cit away from their insides. The blood has nowhere to keep flowing in the body. Almost lifeless creatures are left bleeding out to die. And you then support such cruelty. Did you actually watch it? If not, please do. If so, how can you pass it off as propoganda?

How is it possible to be a Communist when you live in a Capitalistic nation? I do not speak for "Che-man" as you call him, but I can dream, can't I?

First quote: Star Wars. Second quote: South Park. Third quote: Good Will Hunting. You meant it as a quick joke, a cheapshot to a "hotshot." I do my best to be polite to you. Please do not insult me in such trivial ways, and try to only use the forum for debates (as I'm sure the forum's monitors would agree).

Are you also Serquei?

-- Edited by meekus at 03:57, 2005-06-29