Who thinks geldof is wrong

butthead · Lookin' After Number 1

Who thinks geldof is wrong

Mark Boyle · House on Fire

butthead wrote:

Do you agree with making poverty history? If so, do you understand the consequences of making poverty history. If this happens alot of things will occur in the next 50 years if africa becomes a developed continent e.g. less people will die so theres a huge risk of overpopulation, more and more oil will be used this means a shortage could happen, more gas will be used, more people will have cars climate problems will substantially rise, like and country or countries, they will purchase weapons and build an army so they have a mean of defence, i feel this means more war. And finally, as the theory goes "survival of the fitest".

For a start, oil as a form of energy will be getting replaced in the next FIVE years, never mind 50 by Fuel cells for motor vehicles.

A healthy & trading Africa will mean a new market for goods to be exported, and produce previously unobtainable to the west due to costs of exporting will become more readily available.

Most African wars are due to Western interference, primarily by sponsoring local warlords to defend their own narrow national "interests" & to Hell with what the locals want. The Angola civil war was only ended by the Marxist government hiring South African mercenaries to beat the US sponsored SWAPO "freedom fighters", whom would execute some of the people of a village (including children) if they did not provide 5 men to "volunteer" for the cause when they came a calling.

Jules · The biggest Geldof fan in the world, bar none!

He definitely isn't wrong.

MPH is about bringing down the barriers put up by Europe so Africa can start to find a place in the world for itself.

In his TV series and book he explains that there are so many things to be done (with lack o modern technology/conviences) many children are needed in families to carry out all these tasks. The need for such large families would reduce if countries in Africa had access to better technology. Eventually things will start to balance out in terms of people living longer.

I can't see that the affects will lead to war, if people have access to better education they will start to understand that war isn't necessary. That there is no need for war, war is often borne out of poverty and lacking, if they are starting to gain, this in turn would start to eliminate the need for war.

I think MPH is only the start of a very very long road to a stronger more prominent Africa. Unfortunately I don't think we'll live long enough to see the fruits of it, but at least we are seeing the seeds sown.

motema2004 · Tonight

He's not wrong! Think how much better the world would be without poverty! I agree with Mouse & Mark & Jules. The person who posted this sounds paranoid. Unfortunately, it seems there might be people out there with those same ideas, but really wrong.

-- Edited by motema2004 at 20:04, 2005-07-08

oshora · CRAZY

Bottomline Buthead...making poverty history is the right thing to do. How would you like to go to bed hungry every night, not having hardly any clothes to cover your body in the raging sun or cold of winter, not having a life but a miserable existence; an existence with death as its destiny? Think about that. Also, by history, all things do balance out.

If you want to get positive, try this thought...lets end poverty and make sure everyone in the world has a peaceful and happy existence. Lets put all our wordly funds into space exploration where we can spend time and effort exploring other "real estate" to live on! Yea, baby!

O'Shora

bookprofits · Lookin' After Number 1

Hi,

No Bob Geldof isn't wrong in wanting to eradicate world poverty in general and African poverty in particular. All supposed fears of increased oil consumption, unsustainable population increase etc are problems homo erectus CAN AND WILL HANDLE. For one OIL as the prime mover is on it's way out...two, even the vatican is aware of recent info that by 2050 or so world population will stabilise at 9bn.

So eradicating world poverty is not wrong but IS IT HAPPENING?

And will it ever happen by throwing money at the problem. Are we not at that point in time of our evolution where we have all the money we need but just can't get rid of our problems? I feel so!

I do hope Bob could approach the problem from another radical angle. I think...Americans are people, Brits are people, Europeans are people and the people have made America, U.K. and Europe what it is today. Ditto for the Japs, Australians and all other developed nations. Africans too are people and therefore have all the resources they need to begin becoming. I think the africans need to break out of the mind-set that has kept them tied down. This is where I believe western aid should go - to trickle down to each poverty-stricken african and inspire him to believe there is a way out and the way is in his own mind first and then in his hands and NOT in the minds, hearts or hands of others.

Writing off debt and then ear-marking more similar loans will only keep the individual shackled in mind and body.

Jerome

Katie15 · Lookin' After Number 1

Can I just say everyone is going to die at some point in our life time If its because of geldof I dont really care to be honest because at least he gave a very poor contry a few good years and personaly giving life means more to me than leaving life to disapear every 3 seconds you put yourself in there shoes you would want to be helped

Justice · Rat Trap

I would rather have less of what I have too much or enough of (Food, Oil) than have someone who has nothing, continue to suffer. (Does that make sence?)

What I'm trying to say is what has already been said, living is more important. And those suffering from poverty, deserve to live a life that the rest of us get to live.

mouton_bleu · She's So Modern

Okay, so poverty's never going to get fixed with just money...... who gives a rat's????? I'm so freakin' sick of people saying that. Especially when they don't try ANYTHING to help, themselves. Sure economic, political, social, etc. change is essential to "make poverty history"... but it's gonna be a while before that ever happens (if it does, sadly). In the meantime, why stop helping people that "little" bit through aid just 'cause you can't solve everything at once??????? It's insane - it MAKES NO SENSE!!! If someone you knew needed urgent medical help, would you just sit around waiting for the ambulance to arrive, complaining that cleaning up a few wounds or rescusitating them's not gonna bring them perfect health on its own?????

And maybe some of butthead's speculation might be right. I don't think it's selfish to think of that - environment, war, et al. are global issues too and affect everyone in some way. Worrying about that and questioning the experts is good... better than blindly accepting whatever's getting the most lauded vibe.

I think Bob's doing an incredible job. Directly attacking the governments could easily go nowhere... politics is bloody finicky business.

Going big and bold, involving the PEOPLE is probably a darn good way of going about change.

Good on 'im, I say!!!! Though Live8/G8 campaigning type stuff is certainly not the be all and end all - there is still a hell of a lot of work to go in many a department.

- Mout

butthead · Lookin' After Number 1

you dont have a clue wat ur on about mate. Bob geldof is in it for the money and reputation. For instance, already has geldof been nominated for a nobel peace prize? hmmm why is this? to be honest i don't feel he wood have been nominated if live 8 hadn't happened. I also feel there will have been a substancial rise in his bank account.BYE CHUMPS!

Justice · Rat Trap

Listen MATE. If you hate him so much why did you take time out of your day to not only find his website, but also take the time to sign up to a forum and post?

You're a very sad person. Get a life.

camilladk · Tonight

In 50 years it will be a very different world than the one we live in now. I think we should support making poverty history. And if all these things happens, as you say butthead, so what! The human race have allways survaived, and when that time comes, they will find new ways to resolve the problems, that they have.

psycho_girl · I Don't Like Mondays

I agree with everyone who has said that Bob isnt wrong, I dont understand why someone that doesn't like bob geldof would come on to a bob geldof fansite makes no sense.

meekus · Tonight

What is possibly bad about eradicating poverty? I don't even understand how someone could possibly start an argument based on the idea that ending poverty is bad. Look at the basics before even questioning with "Ifs".

Jules · The biggest Geldof fan in the world, bar none!

I think the question behind all this is do we agree with Bob's methods of eradicating poverty rather than eradicating poverty itself? There have been lot's of critics of the methods behind Make Poverty History. Some charities and individuals claim that writing off debt and giving aid are not the right thing to do. They say that it is more damaging to Africa and is sending good money after bad.

It's not that I entirely disagree (I understand what they are saying) but I agree with the MPH method that we should write off debts and give more aid. I think that the world's superpowers should bring down their barriers and allow Africa its freedom and not to owe the rest of the world anything.

The critics also argue that in doing this this is simplifying poverty. In my view I think in a sense it is necessary to simplify because the issues are so complex most of us don't really understand. The issue of corrupt governments is wrapped up in this yes, but we must do what we can and put that aside for this purpose. I think we should be seeking to deal with that in other ways. I think Bob/MPH approach is right to separate it out and simplify it so steps forward can be made and they have.

Julia · Tonight

bookprofits wrote:

All supposed fears of increased oil consumption, unsustainable population increase etc are problems homo erectus CAN AND WILL HANDLE.

I realise I'm being totally pedantic , but if this is being counted on - we're doomed. Poor old Homo erectus is an extinct species, thought to be the direct ancestor of our own species, Homo sapiens.

Jules wrote:

The critics also argue that in doing this this is simplifying poverty. In my view I think in a sense it is necessary to simplify because the issues are so complex ...

And if the tangled mess of issues are not simplified, at least to a certain degree, then the complexity itself becomes a 'reason' to throw our hands in the air and say "It's all too hard." Simplifying poverty is not the same as saying poverty is simple.

Mark Boyle · House on Fire

butthead wrote:

you dont have a clue wat ur on about mate. Bob geldof is in it for the money and reputation. For instance, already has geldof been nominated for a nobel peace prize? hmmm why is this? to be honest i don't feel he wood have been nominated if live 8 hadn't happened. I also feel there will have been a substancial rise in his bank account.BYE CHUMPS!

"Bob geldof is in it for the money and reputation."

Uhhh....my brain hurts!

The whole thing was done for free, & they had to force him into playing anything at all in the end.

And where did the already multi-millionaire Geldof make any money from this then? He did Band Aid/Live Aid when flat broke & really not in a clever position to be doing anything away from earning some badly needed money for his family (new born baby & all that). He did Live 8 when money was no object.

As for reputation, a guy that swears like a trooper like he does is certainly not doing things for the sake of reputation!

"For instance, already has geldof been nominated for a nobel peace prize?"

Clever boy, you win a cookie. Nominated by the Norwegians, incidentally. If he does win it, what's the big deal about winning something he ought to have got by rights back in 1985. Anyway, since when is saving the world been a good way to win the Nobel Peace Prize, when history shows the best way is to be a "reformed" terrorist.

"To be honest i don't feel he wood have been nominated if live 8 hadn't happened. I also feel there will have been a substancial rise in his bank account."

We'll see if we can get Bob to buy you a DICTIONARY with his winnings...

"you dont have a clue wat ur on about"

Quite!

meekus · Tonight

I guess butthead ran off...

_johanna_ · Drag Me Down

I'd say just leave it...

mouton_bleu · She's So Modern

To all of you who say butthead's been scared off - you may be right, but then again, unless you are a huge fan of Bob's, you're unlikely to be popping onto a Bob Geldof forum every two seconds... we may not have seen the last of this character. (But I wouldn't be surprised if we had though).

I agree it's better to just leave it, Mouse... if you've tried explaining something to people and they refuse to listen, there's not much point wasting your effort TRYING to convince them. Frustrating as it may be ;)

- Mout/Fi

bookprofits · Lookin' After Number 1

Julia wrote:

...Poor old Homo erectus is an extinct species, thought to be the direct ancestor of our own species, Homo sapiens...

I accept, agree, and apologise for the inaccurate choice of words to describe our magnificent species but I sure hope the intended positivity was not missed - We CAN find solutions to ALL our problems the point being do we who exist today want to find them solutions or not! The world will not come to an end if we do not solve the issues of our lifetime, all that will happen is the opportunity to solve issues will move into other and newer hands. It is up to us to decide to accept current opportunities and apply that immense machine of our mind to making a warrior-like reply.

Sir Bob has identified the issue, focussed the world's attention onto it and got major world leaders to take greater action, it is now upto to each one of us to take sides - view poverty as a disaster our world is slipping into or view poverty as a stepping stone into the abundance the world can come into.

With the latter mental base we could come up with various non-conflicting and viable solutions and soon poverty would be no more. TRULY!

Do look at my post 'let's do a few David's against the Goliath of Poverty elsewhere on this forum.

Finest, Jerome.

Julia · Tonight

I knew I was being pedantic, bookprofits, and no, your positivity was not missed. In fact, the optimism in your writing comes across as almost inspirational.

bookprofits wrote:

Are we not at that point in time of our evolution where we have all the money we need but just can't get rid of our problems? I feel so!

Africans ... have all the resources they need to begin becoming. I think the africans need to break out of the mind-set that has kept them tied down. This is where I believe western aid should go - to trickle down to each poverty-stricken african and inspire him to believe there is a way out and the way is in his own mind first and then in his hands and NOT in the minds, hearts or hands of others.

... (if we) view poverty as a stepping stone into the abundance the world can come into ... we could come up with various non-conflicting and viable solutions and soon poverty would be no more.

While consciousness-raising at the grass roots level is an important component of empowerment and overcoming oppression, I believe your ideas are oversymplifying what is a very complex situation.

It's obvious that you are passionate regarding these ideas, despite their very idealistic nature. How wonderful it would be if you are right! On the other hand, I do not believe that African poverty (indeed, all poverty) can be fully addressed without the complexities. Certainly, issues need a degree of simplification, but it is my view that simplifying poverty is not the same as saying poverty is simple.

However, when I saw that your homepage is: www.freebookongettingrich.com, I felt I had a better insight into your belief that solving poverty is simple.

I still don't agree, but I'm fine about agreeing to disagree .