V Deep fallout

noelindublin · Loudmouth

V Deep fallout

Derek The Dane · V Deep

Never In A Million years was a bad start.It should have been House On Fire,He Watches It All and Skin On Skin as the 3 singles.Charmed Lives was a good album track but never a single.But it was weird how quickly they fell from grace.

noelindublin · Loudmouth

HI - I generally agree with you Derek- House on Fire maybe should have been the first single as its the most poppy. Somebody has to make these decisions and Geldof always said he liked Never In....

In a way V Deep is an album without obvious singles except House on Fire which doesn't mean the songs were bad - they just were a bit on the bleak side, subdued and a bit brooding. Some bands like albums where the songs as a whole make more sense than individual tracks- the lp in its totality works for me though some don't like it.

Skin on Skin may have made a good single but even the name of the track would have meant only nightime airplay. Incidentally the title Skin on Skin may have been borrowed from an adult movie of the same name released in 1981 starring who else but Boogie Nighter John C Holmes. I wonder did the song title just accur to Geldof or was he watching it all on his video!

Ian MD · The Elephant's Graveyard

I remember Bob and Johnnie on Swop Shop being asked why Skin on Skin wasn't a single release. They just s******ed and said it wouldn't be appropriate for the charts!

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

noelindublin wrote:
In a way V Deep is an album without obvious singles except House on Fire which doesn't mean the songs were bad - they just were a bit on the bleak side, subdued and a bit brooding. Some bands like albums where the songs as a whole make more sense than individual tracks- the lp in its totality works for me though some don't like it.

Up All Night was possibly single material. It was released at a single in the USA & Germany and made the German top 40. Also had a half decent promo.

Go Man Go was another that was released in Japan and Ireland but not in the UK. Would have been better than Elephant's Graveyard. Not that I think Elephant's Graveyard is a bad song, just a bad title and a subject that was too involving. Much like Skin on Skin, not single material.

suss · In the Long Grass

Quite surprised to hear Mondo Bongo was their best selling to date beforehand. For me that was where the foundations suddenly looked a little wobbly and the experiments might have alienated a lot of the fan base (not to mention Gerry). Only my opinion but Mood Mambo might just have persuaded those in a record shop listening booth not to persevere? The fact that it only spawned two singles suggests to me they (or the label) also felt it wasn't their finest hour.

Unfortunately for reasons stated in posts above and elsewhere (singles selected from V Deep and also the foray into jazzy/funky elements) I don't think many of the fans of first 3 albums heard anything from V Deep to get them rushing back, so for me the chart failure was sadly inevitable. Hate to say it but I bought Charmed Lives out of sheer devotion only. Would have preferred Skin on Skin as a single given the choice of the two if they were determined to push that sound.

There was also the pretty lengthy gap from Elephant's Graveyard, which had hardly set the charts alight (so from Banana Republic to all intents and purposes), to Never In a Million Years, in which time the overall nature of the charts and mainstream radio airplay had as I recall it changed quite significantly (very few acts from the 'new wave' either survived or still thrived). The Rats (well Geldof I suppose) tried in my view to move a bit with the times (struck me there were elements of Pigbag and that genre in parts of V Deep) but the band were by then neither one thing or another, so they couldn't even secure those record buying lightweights who just latch on to the latest trend regardless of whether they actually like the songs they're buying.

The shame for me is that I thought In The Long Grass was a real return to form, but what with limited fan base by then and the subsequent 'cashing in on Band Aid' accusations when they did try to (re)promote it, it never really stood a chance.

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

suss wrote:
The shame for me is that I thought In The Long Grass was a real return to form, but what with limited fan base by then and the subsequent 'cashing in on Band Aid' accusations when they did try to (re)promote it, it never really stood a chance.

It was a return to form, but by then it was pretty much just fans (and Garry on his motorbike) buying the records. Had they made In the Long Grass as the follow up to Surfacing and released it in 1981, I believe that Dave would have been a big hit and A Hold of Me and Drag Me Down would have been hits in the slipstream.

It may also have meant they were taken more seriously a la The Police with Invisible Sun and The Stranglers with Golden Brown. Well worth noting that The Police with Zenyatta Mondatta and the Stranglers with Meninblack had albums prior to those singles that weren't too warmly received.

Mondo Bongo and V Deep, though not without their moments, didn't appeal much beyond the fan base and hence those that had bought ATFTT and TFAOS were not going to get In The Long Grass.

I reckon they were partying too much in Ibiza to bother making a good record when they did Mondo Bongo.

noelindublin · Loudmouth

ArrGee wrote:

noelindublin wrote:
In a way V Deep is an album without obvious singles except House on Fire which doesn't mean the songs were bad - they just were a bit on the bleak side, subdued and a bit brooding. Some bands like albums where the songs as a whole make more sense than individual tracks- the lp in its totality works for me though some don't like it.
Up All Night was possibly single material. It was released at a single in the USA & Germany and made the German top 40. Also had a half decent promo.

Go Man Go was another that was released in Japan and Ireland but not in the UK. Would have been better than Elephant's Graveyard. Not that I think Elephant's Graveyard is a bad song, just a bad title and a subject that was too involving. Much like Skin on Skin, not single material.

Why a bad title? Its a fairly well known phraise meaning as you probaly know someplace elephants go to die when getting too old. See the Wiki definition.

Substitute the old blue rinsed set for elephants and the graveyard is Miami and I think its an apt metaphor and I don't find it too clunky.

Banana Republic with its theme of eternal strife in Ireland was pretty involving with centuries of conflict and misunderstanding between Ireland and Britain so maybe that should be beyond peoples comprehension. The criticism of that song was that it was "white reggae" and I'm sure the afternoon shift on Radio One would prefer nice easy pop rather than music that was about anything.

noelindublin · Loudmouth

ArrGee wrote:

suss wrote:
The shame for me is that I thought In The Long Grass was a real return to form, but what with limited fan base by then and the subsequent 'cashing in on Band Aid' accusations when they did try to (re)promote it, it never really stood a chance.
It was a return to form, but by then it was pretty much just fans (and Garry on his motorbike) buying the records. Had they made In the Long Grass as the follow up to Surfacing and released it in 1981, I believe that Dave would have been a big hit and A Hold of Me and Drag Me Down would have been hits in the slipstream.
It may also have meant they were taken more seriously a la The Police with Invisible Sun and The Stranglers with Golden Brown. Well worth noting that The Police with Zenyatta Mondatta and the Stranglers with Meninblack had albums prior to those singles that weren't too warmly received.
Mondo Bongo and V Deep, though not without their moments, didn't appeal much beyond the fan base and hence those that had bought ATFTT and TFAOS were not going to get In The Long Grass.
I reckon they were partying too much in Ibiza to bother making a good record when they did Mondo Bongo.

The songs or subject matter don't exactly read like party music- Straight Up, Hurt Hurts, Please Don't Go, This Is My Room, never mind Banana Republic.

Ibiza was for hippies before it really became a dance mecca with drugs so it was fairly secluded and exclusive as far as I know. In fairness success would probably go to anyone's head so they can be forgiven maybe three or four bad tracks on Mondo Bongo- there's a good middle order of decent songs and a few great ones.

noelindublin · Loudmouth

hi Suss- That is a really well written analysis.I can genuinely say I have never felt disappointed with any of the Rats albums- but that's just me and I can understand others misgivings.

I've in the last few years gotten into Captain Beefheart ( a true musical genius) and while I like most of his stuff to bits I can see myself doubting some of it.

I suppose if I felt lukewarm about the Rats I wouldn't bother posting but there is perhaps only half a dozen Rats songs I really dislike or think are just lame. As they say whatever floats your boat ,or whatever works.

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

noelindublin wrote:
Why a bad title? Its a fairly well known phrase meaning as you probaly know someplace elephants go to die when getting too old. See the Wiki definition.

Substitute the old blue rinsed set for elephants and the graveyard is Miami and I think its an apt metaphor and I don't find it too clunky.

I know what it means, but I don't think smart works with single titles. Much in the way people may think I Don't Like Mondays is about a bad day at the office or Banana Republic about a carribean island, Elephant's Graveyard at face value is about Dumbo dying. Chuck in race riots and granny's retiring and it's not that immediate.

Pulp made a similar mistake with Help The Aged. After all, Golden Brown and Perfect Day sound innocent enough. Go Man Go could be about spending your life on speed for all I know, but the title seems pretty inoffensive. Looks like they are just off for a trip. Likewise Up All Night.

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

noelindublin wrote:
... there is perhaps only half a dozen Rats songs I really dislike or think are just lame. As they say whatever floats your boat ,or whatever works.

I reckon that's pretty similar for me in terms of dislike, but they all are on Mondo & V Deep.

The songs I really dislike are

Charmed Lives
Another Piece of Red
Mood Mambo
Please Don't Go
Talking In Code
The Little Death

I didn't like Walking Downtown nor Arnold Layne (whatever possessed them), but as B-sides/bionus tracks they aren't an issue.

There are a number which I like; I wouldn't say there was a bad track on Surfacing, but not as many great ones as the first two albums.

The majority of the songs I love.

suss · In the Long Grass

ArrGee wrote:

noelindublin wrote:
... there is perhaps only half a dozen Rats songs I really dislike or think are just lame. As they say whatever floats your boat ,or whatever works.
I reckon that's pretty similar for me in terms of dislike, but they all are on Mondo & V Deep.

The songs I really dislike are

Charmed Lives
Another Piece of Red
Mood Mambo
Please Don't Go
Talking In Code
The Little Death

I didn't like Walking Downtown nor Arnold Layne (whatever possessed them), but as B-sides/bionus tracks they aren't an issue.

There are a number which I like; I wouldn't say there was a bad track on Surfacing, but not as many great ones as the first two albums.

The majority of the songs I love.

As we're shifting topic slightly, for what it's worth I'd broadly agree with that, certainly at album level as per earlier post, although I came to appreciate Talking in Code more after the live renditions on the last album tour and I don't mind Another Piece of Red. From first three I was always indifferent to Can't Stop and Nice N Neat, and from last I can take or leave Icicle in the Sun.

Would be interested to hear yours Noel.

BTR · Tonight

I can remember my brother buying Mondo Bongo and we took the album home to have a listen.

We were horrified when we first played the album. We both thought 'WTF have they done?!?!'

It wasn't what we were expecting. I can imagine that a lot of people thought the same and from then on didn't buy anything else by the band.

Only years later did I like Mondo Bongo.

noelindublin · Loudmouth

hi- i have a thing about band names that can put me off a band- sometimes a bands name will sound intriguing even before I get to hear them and conversely some bands names are just plain awful and make me think these couldn't be any good.

I hadn't heard of Janie Jones being an innocent Irish lad but most music fans are intelligent enough to find out the story behind the songs. REM had a good song about the delights of an orange fizzy drink called Orange Crush which was imported into Vietnam by the Americans- a musical Trojan Horse for the unsuspecting.

SORRY-this is a reply to Arrgees post about Elephants Graveyard title

-- Edited by noelindublin on Sunday 26th of September 2010 12:38:33 PM

noelindublin · Loudmouth

suss wrote:

ArrGee wrote:

noelindublin wrote:
... there is perhaps only half a dozen Rats songs I really dislike or think are just lame. As they say whatever floats your boat ,or whatever works.
I reckon that's pretty similar for me in terms of dislike, but they all are on Mondo & V Deep.

The songs I really dislike are

Charmed Lives
Another Piece of Red
Mood Mambo
Please Don't Go
Talking In Code
The Little Death

I didn't like Walking Downtown nor Arnold Layne (whatever possessed them), but as B-sides/bionus tracks they aren't an issue.

There are a number which I like; I wouldn't say there was a bad track on Surfacing, but not as many great ones as the first two albums.

The majority of the songs I love.

As we're shifting topic slightly, for what it's worth I'd broadly agree with that, certainly at album level as per earlier post, although I came to appreciate Talking in Code more after the live renditions on the last album tour and I don't mind Another Piece of Red. From first three I was always indifferent to Can't Stop and Nice N Neat, and from last I can take or leave Icicle in the Sun.

Would be interested to hear yours Noel.

HI- for what its worth I honestly don't dislike any of the songs ArrGee mentions- those songs are maybe not the bands finest hour but to me they are not awful or embarrassing or anything of the sort. I could go into great detail explaining why in words writing up each song as an appreciation- but it would be a bit like explaining the merits of a wine viz Oz Clark to James May on that brilliant tv series-like everything in life you either "get it " or you don't.

Here's three Rats songs I don't like - Whitehall 1212 basically pointless, and Precious Time which is dull and labours the point of wasting the singers time. Kicks is fine if you're seventeen years old but I've long ago outgrown the lyrics so its one I skip.

Nice 'n' Neat is a good piece of music but I find the lyrics about Geldof's friend wanting to be a clergyman not a very rock n roll subject .

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

suss wrote:

Quite surprised to hear Mondo Bongo was their best selling to date beforehand.

It had the highest UK chart position, but did not sell anything like the previous two LPs. Probably outsold the debut album.

http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?aBID=48603&p=3&topicID=38367737&page=1&sort=

Albums: Silver 60,000; Gold 100,000; Platinum 300,000

BOOMTOWN RATS - THE BOOMTOWN RATS

Silver Certification (Album) 09 May 1978 PHONOGRAM (ENSIGN) Released August 1977

BOOMTOWN RATS - A TONIC FOR THE TROOPS

Platinum Certification (Album) 03 March 1980 PHONOGRAM (ENSIGN) Released June 1978

Certification History:

Gold Certification 06 November 1978

Silver Certification 03 August 1978

BOOMTOWN RATS - THE FINE ART OF SURFACING

Silver Certification (Album) 13 February 1980 PHONOGRAM (ENSIGN) Released October 1979

Certification History:

Gold Certification 13 February 1980

BOOMTOWN RATS - MONDO BONGO

Gold Certification (Album) 21 January 1981 POLYGRAM (MERCURY) Released January 1981