suss wrote:

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Liked Roxanne, and I suppose Message in A Bottle and So Lonely, but very little else. Never bought Outlandos or Zenyatta even when many peers did, but did snap up All Mod Cons, Setting Sons, Sound Affects and Gift. Wasn't so keen on earlier Jam, or latter day.

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I have to confess that I never bought a Jam record until Snap!  Many of the songs I liked weren't on their albums, so I didn't bother.  But Snap! is a superb compilation, possibly one of the best I have ever had and very well worn.

I didn't really like The Police that much before Invisible Sun (though So Lonely and Can't Stand Losing You were exceptions), but Ghost in the Machine and Synchronicity were albums I really liked.  I even got a couple of Sting solo LPs before realising the last two Police albums were the exception than the rule.

Post Jam/Police, Weller has been of more interest.  The Style Council had their moments, Walls Come Tumbling Down and Shout To The Top come readily to mind, and his best solo work, Stanley Road ranks as high as his group output.

As for Sting, I can't think of anything decent he has done in the last twenty years or so since An Englishman in New York.

Without doubt my preference is for Weller, because I've always liked the Jam, though I'll never  tire of saying XTC are more my cup of tea, and I wish more people liked them. And Andy Partridge is one of the most entertaining, amusing, and witty rock stars ever.

I have always found Stings whining, er 'singing' not very appealing, though the Police (what a rubbish band name) admittedly produced many good singles, it's just they have always seemed lightweight and paradoxically over serious, if that makes sense. Sting solo just sounds completely self indulgent, Fields of Gold was a rip off from the soundtrack of The Wickerman, one of the most blatant rip offs ever imho.

Have only heard bits and pieces of Weller solo, mainly 22 Dreams, which contained the brilliant, folky Light Dreams, and most of the singles over the years. The Style Council were not my cup of tea- I've never really liked soul music- maybe I've got no soul! Weller can be a bit cranky, and over the years he hasn't particularly been a fan of Bob Geldof or The Boomtown Rats. Overall I have always liked the Jam, but in a slightly detached way, never with the almost complete emotional investment I had for the Boomtown Rats or XTC.

I'm happily listening to a double cd of Mercury Rev at the moment,  so neither Sting or Weller are clamoring for my attention. But my vote goes to Weller/ Jam/ SC

Just as an aside I've been reminded very much of Sting/Police over last few weeks by the current #1, that Gotye track 'Somebody I used to Know'. It's been TOTP for about 6 weeks now.

Anyone else see (hear) that? Don't especially like the song (reminds me too much of Sting ) but is quite a refreshing change from same old same old R&B artists and predominant sound over last dunno how many years. 

Maybe we're due a resurgence of late seventies sound and guitar based songs actually registering in charts. Yeah right.....

OK, guess I'm going to have to concede defeat as it's 3-1, must say I'm totally underwhelmed by lack of support, stung in fact!!

How about another one then - Tom Jones vs Engelbert Humperdinck???  For me, it would have to be Tom - must admit I've not heard Humpie sing (or maybe blanked it out of my mind if I ever had).  But will admit to having a Tom Jones' compilation and quite liking it.  He is definitely a cool dude and there's something about his voice, maybe it's cos he's Welsh, I have a bit of "thing" about Huw Edwards too!  Shame I don't concentrate more on what he's actually saying though when he reads the news as then I'd be really well-informed and clever

Getting back to Sting though, think he's aged a little better than Weller - and maybe he does have some stray peroxide hairs lurking somewhere, in his ears, up his nose ....

How did that photo get past Weller's PR machine?  Must have been from a 'pics the stars don't want you to see' type website. Weller looks like a grumpy old man down the pub who would complain about 'that punk rock nonsense, wot's all that about then?'

One more observation about The Police - a lot of their singles sound really simplistic, just a few chords and a very simple tune eg Every Breath You Take or Walking On The Moon  or Message In A Bottle,  while The Jam and The Boomtown Rats sound is a lot more complex with much more going on, and melodies that are not too obvious.

Still The Police sold nearly 80,000 tickets when the played their comeback tour in Dublin a few years back, so they must have been doing something right.

noelindublin wrote:

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One more observation about The Police - a lot of their singles sound really simplistic, just a few chords and a very simple tune eg Every Breath You Take or Walking On The Moon  or Message In A Bottle,  while The Jam and The Boomtown Rats sound is a lot more complex with much more going on, and melodies that are not too obvious.

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Playing Police songs on a guitar is far more difficult than Jam or Rats songs.  I can pretty much play anything on the first two Rats albums and do half decent renditions of a number of Jam songs, whereas with the Police the guitar bits are just impossible for me.  Andy Summmers is a very proficient and highly regarded guitarist, whereas Weller, Roberts and Cott aren't.  Sting has been scathing about the simplicity of Geldof's songwriting.

(As an aside a Geldof/Sting interview http://www.sting.com/news/article/102)

ArrGee wrote:

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(As an aside a Geldof/Sting interview http://www.sting.com/news/article/102)

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 Great interview, if it can be called that. More of a recorded conversation.

Proper LOL at the bit about windscreen cleaners .

Bob did seem less earnest in those days......just can't imagine that sort of spontaneous humour in an "interview" now. Maybe those asking the questions deserve the blame....or maybe he was just half cut in this one.

Lisa wrote:

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Just heard that Paul Weller's latest album, Sonik Kicks, is topping album charts - his fourth solo number 1 album apparently ...

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 ... and his 11th top ten LP.  5 no 2, 1 No 4 and 1 No 8.

Also Stanley Road is a 4 X Platinum album.  To put that into context, the best a Jam LP did was Gold, but Adele 21 is 15 X Platinum.

You may be surprised to know that A Tonic For The Troops was platinum and outsold every Jam album. The Clash never did any better than gold, but The Sex Pistols, The Police and The Stranglers did all get platinum records

http://www.bpi.co.uk/certifiedawards/search.aspx

suss wrote:

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ArrGee wrote:

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(As an aside a Geldof/Sting interview http://www.sting.com/news/article/102)

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 Great interview, if it can be called that. More of a recorded conversation.

Proper LOL at the bit about windscreen cleaners .

Bob did seem less earnest in those days......just can't imagine that sort of spontaneous humour in an "interview" now. Maybe those asking the questions deserve the blame....or maybe he was just half cut in this one.

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 It would be nice to hear the audio of that conversation as that would add to the 'spice' of the interview. Anybody quoting Geldof or Sting out of context would have a field day.

noelindublin wrote:

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I would regard Garry Roberts and Gerry Cott as pretty 'proficient' guitarists, just that they are forgotten men of rock, in some sense and both men have been playing guitar for probably over forty years.

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Tony Visconti didn't rate either at all, and to be fair he should have some idea.  Geldof did write that Garry's guitar playing was pretty rudimentary prior to Cott's departure.  Cott himself has admitted that he is not a particulary proficient rock guitarist...

http://www.cyberspace7.btinternet.co.uk/gerry3.htm

noelindublin wrote:

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 I doubt Geldof would risk the embarrasment of not having solid, competent players in his band. Most of the punk bands were making it up as they went along, and the Rats were no exception. The did have two years of touring and practice before they hit the big time, so any problems with incompetence on anyones part would have been sorted before they hit the big time.

-- Edited by noelindublin on Wednesday 28th of March 2012 12:45:43 PM

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 As we're off topic anyway, I'd be quite surprised if Bob perceived it as 'his' band before about the third album. Realise he was always the natural frontman, but there seems to be plenty of anecdotal evidence that he was fairly insecure about how good he was early on, so wasn't likely to be too critical of the rest. Probably worth mentioning they were essentially mates as well. I reckon it was far more a team thing early days, with the others just  happy to let Bob satisfy his desire for the limelight while they didn't crave it. 

Reading what Gerry says it also backs up theory that Bob overcame some of those self doubts and took more of a lead, to the point where he just got too indulgent, dogmatic and selfish. I'd still maintain it wasn't anything to do with his rating of their talent, just that he suddenly had complete conviction in his, ultimately evidenced by his insistence on strumming away on stage himself. The Gerry departure and circumstances demonstrates for me when Bob viewed it as 'his' band.

Can't argue with fact that guitars featured less after FAOS, certainly in the R&B/rock style at least (although the break in Hurt Hurts is a notable exception), but it was all far more experimental in reggae, funk style etc. I don't think Geldof was edging out the guitar stuff so much as indulgently trying numerous different sounds where often brass or keyboards just happened to be more prominent. 

ITLG did signal (for me) a definite shift back to more basic sound, especially on tracks like Dave, Drag Me Down and Lucky, hence its appeal to some of us over the previous two, but too late. Fanbase was gone. Would love to know how much of that shift back was down to Geldof realising he'd blown it, or rest of band pointing it out.

Maybe they just turned up at the studio and said 'there's only one way to decide.....' 

 Johnnie and Simon (and Yoko Fingers!) wanted to do some songs together as Gung Ho, and park the Rats for a while.. A break of a few years might have given everyone some breathing space. Geldof, meanwhile, could have done a solo album or just taken a break from music. Sometimes no matter how good a band is, the public just decides it has had enough- any unfortunately for the Rats that time had come.

Meanwhile Live Aid intervened and with Geldof's huge media profile the days of The Boomtown Rats were numbered. Yes they might have continued for a few more albums, but I'd imagine they'd spent too much time together and all parties wished to move on with their lives. Who'd have believed ten years earlier that they could have achieved so much together,and the times were moving on. Nothing lasts forever. Even the thrill of having number one hits must become a bit boring after a while, and two is enough for anybody. For band members, friends and fans we'll always have the memories.

suss wrote:

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noelindublin wrote:

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 I doubt Geldof would risk the embarrasment of not having solid, competent players in his band. Most of the punk bands were making it up as they went along, and the Rats were no exception. The did have two years of touring and practice before they hit the big time, so any problems with incompetence on anyones part would have been sorted before they hit the big time.

-- Edited by noelindublin on Wednesday 28th of March 2012 12:45:43 PM

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 As we're off topic anyway, I'd be quite surprised if Bob perceived it as 'his' band before about the third album. Realise he was always the natural frontman, but there seems to be plenty of anecdotal evidence that he was fairly insecure about how good he was early on, so wasn't likely to be too critical of the rest. Probably worth mentioning they were essentially mates as well. I reckon it was far more a team thing early days, with the others just  happy to let Bob satisfy his desire for the limelight while they didn't crave it. 

Reading what Gerry says it also backs up theory that Bob overcame some of those self doubts and took more of a lead, to the point where he just got too indulgent, dogmatic and selfish. I'd still maintain it wasn't anything to do with his rating of their talent, just that he suddenly had complete conviction in his, ultimately evidenced by his insistence on strumming away on stage himself. The Gerry departure and circumstances demonstrates for me when Bob viewed it as 'his' band.

Can't argue with fact that guitars featured less after FAOS, certainly in the R&B/rock style at least (although the break in Hurt Hurts is a notable exception), but it was all far more experimental in reggae, funk style etc. I don't think Geldof was edging out the guitar stuff so much as indulgently trying numerous different sounds where often brass or keyboards just happened to be more prominent. 

ITLG did signal (for me) a definite shift back to more basic sound, especially on tracks like Dave, Drag Me Down and Lucky, hence its appeal to some of us over the previous two, but too late. Fanbase was gone. Would love to know how much of that shift back was down to Geldof realising he'd blown it, or rest of band pointing it out.

Maybe they just turned up at the studio and said 'there's only one way to decide.....' 

-- Edited by suss on Wednesday 28th of March 2012 09:53:31 PM

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 Suss- it was amiss of me to call it Geldof's band. I fully realise the co-operative nature of the endeavour and your piece is very perceptive and highly accurate. Geldof's overbearing, perhaps domineering personality maybe falsely assumes too much about him-he certainly was/is a driven character and a leader type.

noelindublin wrote:

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 Johnnie and Simon (and Yoko Fingers!) wanted to do some songs together as Gung Ho, and park the Rats for a while.. A break of a few years might have given everyone some breathing space. Geldof, meanwhile, could have done a solo album or just taken a break from music. 

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Prior to Self Aid, according to Geldof, he was offered a contract to do a solo record and was looking to negogtiate a solo/band deal.  I suppose this would have been along the lines of the Bryan Ferry/Roxy Music deal.  The problem was that the band were not comfortable with being a side project with potentially the better songs being reserved for the solo album. Given the unlikelihood of The Rats continuing Crowe and Fingers formed Gung~Ho and that was that.  Many of their peers has split by then, so not very surprising they called it a day after In The Long Grass.

ArrGee wrote:

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noelindublin wrote:

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 Johnnie and Simon (and Yoko Fingers!) wanted to do some songs together as Gung Ho, and park the Rats for a while.. A break of a few years might have given everyone some breathing space. Geldof, meanwhile, could have done a solo album or just taken a break from music. 

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Prior to Self Aid, according to Geldof, he was offered a contract to do a solo record and was looking to negogtiate a solo/band deal.  I suppose this would have been along the lines of the Bryan Ferry/Roxy Music deal.  The problem was that the band were not comfortable with being a side project with potentially the better songs being reserved for the solo album. Given the unlikelihood of The Rats continuing Crowe and Fingers formed Gung~Ho and that was that.  Many of their peers has split by then, so not very surprising they called it a day after In The Long Grass.

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 Play To Win by Gung Ho is really good. I would have thought that if Simon and Johnnie had written songs for the Gung Ho project then they would use those songs themselves, with Geldof using his own material, or most likely songs written with Pete Briquette. Can't see Gung Ho at that time using Geldof songs or vice versa. It was time for the various band members to truly start looking after number one.

Ever notice all great bands have a Yoko involved in the break up? 

noelindublin wrote:

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ot nowadays'. I was too scared to ask any more questions , so as I recall blurted 'here'suss wrote:

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Cheers. Only my point of view but glad you got me thinking about it. I'd never have tried to analyse any of this stuff when it was actually happening.

Incidentally, I can still remember getting a deeply suspicious look from Geldof at stage door post gig on last album tour when I casually (and genuinely) enquired if he was still in touch with Gerry. You know how it's generally a quick autograph, minimal small talk and barely any eye contact...well on this occasion he looked up and stared straight at me, I suppose sizing up whether I was some journo, before realising it was innocent enough and saying 'no ns 50p for Band Aid' and scarpered 

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 I presume you mean the ITLG tour.It's probably not the sort of question BG was expecting to be fair. The whole relationship between fans and stars of any kind is a whole hornets nets sometimes. Personally I would have no, or low expectations from such a meeting- the whole thing seems a bit unnatural anyway. Even liking the music can be deceptive as sometimes a stars musical persona can be at odds to how a fleeting encounter in real life shows them to be- most likely to be busy and preoccupied with other personal matters rather than being 'nice to fans'.

Best I think not to bother, so that we are left with our illusions rather than the memory of a scowl or blank expression from a hero. Perhaps a better question would have been 'Do you know the All The Rage lyrics offhand?

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 But it is fun to be brave and just talk to those you admire even if they think you're stupid!  First time I saw Garry and Simon, the best I could manage on spur of moment was "I've loved you since I was 13!", then at Wolverhampton gig tried to tell Simon I really liked Jiggerypipery stuff, then when he asked which track in particular, couldn't think of any titles, what the names of CDs were, what my name was ...Think I managed to think of one (track name that is!) after what seemed like an age!! Anyway, it sort of breaks the ice, I guess   Another band I've known for ages and seen zillions of times - the Ukulele Orchestra of Great Britain - have got past the stage of saying the gig was good, just talk about everyday stuff, travel arrangements etc, and maybe have a drink with them.  I think sometimes bands just like to see a friendly face and not have to be cool or try to impress either.  Works both ways, I guess ...

Have never heard any Gung Ho stuff - was interested a while back but never managed to find any CDS ...

ArrGee wrote:

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suss wrote:

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Just as an aside I've been reminded very much of Sting/Police over last few weeks by the current #1, that Gotye track 'Somebody I used to Know'. 

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 Me too, I hate that song. Especially the Baa Baa Black Sheep music. 

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 Allies 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NY4xE9rAY8k&feature=player_embedded