How different would the Rats music have been if Gerry had stayed?

diffbrook · House on Fire

How different would the Rats music have been if Gerry had stayed?

jamieuka · House on Fire

I'm not so sure. Mondo Bongo isn't exactly a 'guitar base' album, despite GC's contributions. Perhaps if the band had begged him to return and he imposed conditions, a la George Harrison during the Get Back sessions?

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

Visconti didn't rate either guitarist and marginalised them on Mondo and V Deep. Gerry Cott may well have played on some V Deep songs like Up All Night. Mutt Lange being a decent guitarist himself brought out the best in Cott. I don't think there was any chance of him returning and from what I read they were on the verge of throwing him out before he quit. I don't think In The Long Grass would have been much different had he remained.

It's interesting that John, George and Ringo all quit the Beatles at one point only for Paul to actually break up the band before they released Let It Be.

manatthetop · In the Long Grass

In my opinion not much He had enough and wanted out as Geldof and co did not take on board what he was trying to say Sad really But the latter says a lot case when he did go That was the end of the Rats (Apart from House on fire). He just seen the writing on the wall B4 the rest of them. For me he did do some great solo stuff on the 1st 3 LPs but when it came to Mondo Bongo he just did not seem into it and it tells on that record

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

manatthetop wrote:
Apart from House on fire...

Gerry Cott may have played on that. The thing is that he is probably a better acoustic guitar player and his style wasn't suited to lead. However in the absence of a full on lead guitarist he mostly took on that role. His playing on the first three LPs is unique and very interesting and the hands on Mutt Lange would take some credit for that. Visconti was used to artists who knew what they wanted to do ala Bowie and was happier when the artist discovered their sound with his guidance.

suss · In the Long Grass

I'm intrigued that although the relationship was apparently in decline, unbeknown to us at the time of course, Gerry was allowed to have Man At The Top released on what, again at the time, had a fair chance of being a hit single.

Can't believe BG was oblivious to its meaning. Was this a placatory measure to an extent?

I like the song, but it's a B side at best, and possibly not the best they had to offer at the time. It's not even as if it was promotional for an album.

Returning to thread, the producer influence sounds entirely plausible, but I'd venture it was Geldof pulling the strings on departure from guitars just as much, with his propensity to experiment over albums 4 and 5.

I'd go with musical differences and Geldof feeling the need to evolve as being insurmountable, but if they were taken out of the equation I think we'd have had more in vein of Fine Art of Surfacing (i.e. less raucous, tending to acoustic) in respect of guitars.

suss · In the Long Grass

Also of the view that Mutt Lange had dictated so much previously that band would have been less likely to adopt another producer who called all the shots, especially as they were at top of their game at the time. I'm convincing myself it was the man at the top who (perhaps inadvertently and not necessarily vindictively) was doing the marginalising.

jamieuka · House on Fire

I've read GC being very complimentary of Mutt Lange. Maybe getting rid of Lange was the fatal mistake and they were nothing without him!

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

suss wrote:
Also of the view that Mutt Lange had dictated so much previously that band would have been less likely to adopt another producer who called all the shots, especially as they were at top of their game at the time. I'm convincing myself it was the man at the top who (perhaps inadvertently and not necessarily vindictively) was doing the marginalising.

Mutt Lange is very controlling and a big fan of multi tracking. From what I heard he recorded every separate drum onto a separate track for Surfacing. Mutt Lange's big success really came when he produced Def Leppard and AC/DC giving them their big stadium sound.

It is likely there were many reasons for Cott's departure for the band and his relationship with Geldof would be one of them, but comparing the production of Mondo Bongo and the first two LPs, the guitars are secondary. Surfacing did lean more heavily on keyboards, but even so there are guitars to the fore.

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

jamieuka wrote:
I've read GC being very complimentary of Mutt Lange. Maybe getting rid of Lange was the fatal mistake and they were nothing without him!

They tried to move on from Lange after A Tonic for the Troops, but the Surfacing recording with Phil Wainman weren't particularly successful. They also had some demos produced by Gus Dudgeon before returning to Mutt Lange most likely due to pressure from Ensign to get an album out pronto. I suspect the lack of critical acclaim for Surfacing led to a rethink and they decided to make the break.

In retrospect, I think they should have got rid of Lange before Surfacing. The production on Surfacing is overblown and The Rats sounded better with less interference. I don't know who would have been the ideal producer. I'd probably say that Chris Thomas would have been more suitable. Never Mind The B0ll0cks, Kick, Different Class and Pretenders/Razorlight's eponymous albums are not a million miles away from the type of album the Rats could have made Surfacing into.