Johnny's got the hump?

manatthetop · In the Long Grass

Johnny's got the hump?

Jules · The biggest Geldof fan in the world, bar none!

Don't believe what you read... Actually wouldn't be surprised if there was a element of truth, but this is the DM. Not known for their honesty.

manatthetop · In the Long Grass

You could be right here. Never bite the hand that feeds

Mark L · Loudmouth

More press prattle. Fingers on hard times and here comes another sad story. Why has he waited all these years to tell us this?

noelindublin · Loudmouth

Jules wrote:
Don't believe what you read... Actually wouldn't be surprised if there was a element of truth, but this is the DM. Not known for their honesty.

They are hardly making the story up. It seems Fingers has issued a High Court writ against Geldof claiming that he (Fingers) composed most of the music, and Bob wrote the lyrics. It is strange that Fingers suddenly comes out with this, after all these years, and after passing up the chance to be involved in the Rats reunion-a reunion that would have made him a lot of money, as it has been quite successful, and ongoing.With Fingers on board we would have had 5 of the original 6 members.

Mark- the report is either based on fact or it is not,don't see why it is just 'press prattle'. Why would a journalist stake his reputation and perhaps risk being sued, if there was no truth to the story?The Telegraph and Rte News carry the story too.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/16/bob-geldof-sued-for-millions-by-former-bandmate-over-claims-he-c/

I can certainly see Fingers side of the argument.Mondays has a very intricate piano sound than only a pianist could really come up with. Seems Fingers got none of the credit, though I don't see why they both could not have been credited. I'm not sure if there are 'millions' in royalties outstanding, though a tidy sum might be more apt.

It's also puzzling how the others in the Rats will view this. Hope it doesn't mean taking sides and splitting the band up again. This is a serious story for the forum, and for people to just casually dismiss it as made up fiction by the Daily Mail is a bit baffling.

It is strange for Fingers to suddenly spring this, though the Mail claims he has been writing to Geldof over this issue since 2004. Anyway I think it's a very interesting development and we'll see how it goes.

Full Mail story (and nice Rats pics!):

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3839874/Bandmate-insists-wrote-Don-t-Like-Mondays-sues-Bob-Geldof.html

-- Edited by noelindublin on Monday 17th of October 2016 12:14:54 PM

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

noelindublin wrote:
... after passing up the chance to be involved in the Rats reunion-a reunion that would have made him a lot of money, as it has been quite successful, and ongoing.With Fingers on board we would have had 5 of the original 6 members.
... for people to just casually dismiss it as made up fiction by the Daily Mail is a bit baffling.

It was unrealistic of Fingers to have uprooted from Japan to play a few gigs. Neither Fingers nor Cott were actively playing Rats songs whereas their replacements were. Maybe it would be like riding a bike but the impracticalites of Fingers just flying in for gigs were probably a factor in him not participating. Also as far as ca$h is concerned, there is probably far more to be made from the royalties than the performances.

I don't think anyone has dismissed it as made up fiction, I think the term prattle refers to the making a mountain out of a molehill as far as the story goes as in prattling on about nothing in particular where Geldof is concerned. Who knows, may just be PR to help flog a few tickets for the Belfast/Dublin gigs next year.

noelindublin · Loudmouth

ArrGee wrote:
noelindublin wrote:
... after passing up the chance to be involved in the Rats reunion-a reunion that would have made him a lot of money, as it has been quite successful, and ongoing.With Fingers on board we would have had 5 of the original 6 members.
... for people to just casually dismiss it as made up fiction by the Daily Mail is a bit baffling.

It was unrealistic of Fingers to have uprooted from Japan to play a few gigs. Neither Fingers nor Cott were actively playing Rats songs whereas their replacements were. Maybe it would be like riding a bike but the impracticalites of Fingers just flying in for gigs were probably a factor in him not participating. Also as far as ca$h is concerned, there is probably far more to be made from the royalties than the performances.
I don't think anyone has dismissed it as made up fiction, I think the term prattle refers to the making a mountain out of a molehill as far as the story goes as in prattling on about nothing in particular where Geldof is concerned. Who knows, may just be PR to help flog a few tickets for the Belfast/Dublin gigs next year.

Lots of interesting tidbits emerging. Fingers claiming that Geldof made 'intimidating phonecalls' (back in 1979) saying Fingers wishing to claim co credit for writing the song could lead to a split in the band. Why it would have made any difference , except to Geldof's ego, is a puzzle. To me it's a Geldof/Fingers song.

Still I find it really interesting that Fingers and Geldof would be in dispute about this since 2004. Fingers obviously needs the money now, otherwise why would he pursue it? It's not as if he can come up with a tune like that any day of the week, nor has he pursued a career actually writing or playing music since being in the Rats. I understand fully how it would have been very difficult for Fingers to rejoin the Rats, especially when the whole project was a bit uncertain, and all they had was the promise of an appearance at the Isle of Wight Festival. The subsequent full touring that has lasted a few years was by no means guaranteed to be successful.It would have been a big leap for Fingers to rejoin the band with him living on the other side of the world.

Maybe it will go the way of Geldof's claim of housing some refugees in one of his many homes, and we'll hear no more about it? Anyway the idea that there are/were millions of pounds in royalties seems a bit far fetched, though rock roll is a strange game.

Mark L · Loudmouth

ArrGee wrote:
noelindublin wrote:
... after passing up the chance to be involved in the Rats reunion-a reunion that would have made him a lot of money, as it has been quite successful, and ongoing.With Fingers on board we would have had 5 of the original 6 members.
... for people to just casually dismiss it as made up fiction by the Daily Mail is a bit baffling.

It was unrealistic of Fingers to have uprooted from Japan to play a few gigs. Neither Fingers nor Cott were actively playing Rats songs whereas their replacements were. Maybe it would be like riding a bike but the impracticalites of Fingers just flying in for gigs were probably a factor in him not participating. Also as far as ca$h is concerned, there is probably far more to be made from the royalties than the performances.
I don't think anyone has dismissed it as made up fiction, I think the term prattle refers to the making a mountain out of a molehill as far as the story goes as in prattling on about nothing in particular where Geldof is concerned. Who knows, may just be PR to help flog a few tickets for the Belfast/Dublin gigs next year.

ArrGee has hit the nail on the head. Far from suggesting the Mail or others had made the story up, I actually questioned why Fingers had taken 37 years to raise this. Noel, you appear not to understand the definition of 'prattle' - Google it and nowhere are you likely to find 'fiction' as an association. I absolutely feel that outside the 'Boomtown bubble' this is just not important and nowhere near as serious as Aleppo, Mosul or the like and it will die a death well before the steps of the Court.

Like an insurance company faced with a spurious whiplash claim, it will be cheaper for Geldof to work out what it will take to get rid of the damned thing, than to expensively win his day in court. Where anything was co-written, Geldof properly co-credited (like Banana Republic or Like Clockwork etc). Why wouldn't he have done the same with this track?

The other 4 and studio staff will know a lot about this. It is not credible that they don't. But with this song being written so long ago (even before Margaret Thatcher's tenure over here began) might they say diplomatically that they can't remember?

Once again, I cannot believe the bile being dished out to Geldof in the comments sections of these papers. How did it come to this? If public opinion counts for anything, Fingers would walk it.

He doesn't deserve to. That's just my opinion. I would find in Geldof's favour on the present evidence.

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

Mark L wrote:
I absolutely feel that outside the 'Boomtown bubble' this is just not important...
...
Once again, I cannot believe the bile being dished out to Geldof in the comments sections of these papers. How did it come to this?

A court case would be exciting though. All adds to the legend. Better than the chummy chummy Pulp, ain't it? Fancy doing something like giving everyone in the band a songwriting credit, how dull. Could end up like this... What a judge said about the rock star Morrissey. or this... Spandau Face Ruin.

I haven't read the comments as I haven't followed any of the links, but had this been any other of Geldof's peers, it wouldn't even make the press. It is a back handed compliment that he is still newsworthy. Maybe for all the wrong reasons, but without this sort of thing and the Primark nonsense people would barely know the Rats were a going concern.

The only real issue is the timing. It should have been in the week or so leading up to the Irish dates to flog a few more tickets. Not sure it will have much impact in Dubai.

Mark L · Loudmouth

What court case? Fingers v Geldof? Costello v Geldof? Van Morrison v Geldof? (handclaps)

Clapton v Geldof? Geldof v Crowe/Roberts?

Its not a PR thing as the timing is disastrous at first blush. Unless this is a seed-planting exercise which comes to fruition around the time of the new album?

Whenever that might be.

noelindublin · Loudmouth

Mark L wrote:
ArrGee wrote:
noelindublin wrote:
... after passing up the chance to be involved in the Rats reunion-a reunion that would have made him a lot of money, as it has been quite successful, and ongoing.With Fingers on board we would have had 5 of the original 6 members.
... for people to just casually dismiss it as made up fiction by the Daily Mail is a bit baffling.

It was unrealistic of Fingers to have uprooted from Japan to play a few gigs. Neither Fingers nor Cott were actively playing Rats songs whereas their replacements were. Maybe it would be like riding a bike but the impracticalites of Fingers just flying in for gigs were probably a factor in him not participating. Also as far as ca$h is concerned, there is probably far more to be made from the royalties than the performances.
I don't think anyone has dismissed it as made up fiction, I think the term prattle refers to the making a mountain out of a molehill as far as the story goes as in prattling on about nothing in particular where Geldof is concerned. Who knows, may just be PR to help flog a few tickets for the Belfast/Dublin gigs next year.

ArrGee has hit the nail on the head. Far from suggesting the Mail or others had made the story up, I actually questioned why Fingers had taken 37 years to raise this. Noel, you appear not to understand the definition of 'prattle' - Google it and nowhere are you likely to find 'fiction' as an association. I absolutely feel that outside the 'Boomtown bubble' this is just not important and nowhere near as serious as Aleppo, Mosul or the like and it will die a death well before the steps of the Court.
Like an insurance company faced with a spurious whiplash claim, it will be cheaper for Geldof to work out what it will take to get rid of the damned thing, than to expensively win his day in court. Where anything was co-written, Geldof properly co-credited (like Banana Republic or Like Clockwork etc). Why wouldn't he have done the same with this track?
The other 4 and studio staff will know a lot about this. It is not credible that they don't. But with this song being written so long ago (even before Margaret Thatcher's tenure over here began) might they say diplomatically that they can't remember?
Once again, I cannot believe the bile being dished out to Geldof in the comments sections of these papers. How did it come to this? If public opinion counts for anything, Fingers would walk it.
He doesn't deserve to. That's just my opinion. I would find in Geldof's favour on the present evidence.

It might not be an 'important' story, but it certainly is interesting, and I suspect a lot of newspaper readers would click on or read this story rather than read about the Syrian civil war or the battle against IS. You might say it's a 'human interest' story, about old friends at loggerheads.

I agree with you Mark about the likelihood of it being settled out of court. Back in 1985 Geldof and Fingers did an interview with BP Fallon for RTE radio, in which BP asks Fingers if he remembers how Mondays was written, and Fingers says that Bob asked him to come up with some piano argeggios for the song. Fingers was a pianist since he was very young, so with the complexity of the melody I would say Fingers deserves as much credit as Bob. Also the fact that Fingers played the song live for so long equally gives him some moral authority to claim some of the royalties.

I wouldn't worry too much about the bilious comments from self selecting newspaper readers. I've seen Geldof being treated as a total star all over the UK when the Rats play live,so it's a case of 'watch out for the normal people, there's more of us than there's of you....' ie more fair minded people, I'd like to think.

Was Fingers making up the comment about he received an 'intimidating' phone call from Bob, and how Bob claimed that Fingers asking for co credit for writing the song might lead to a split in the band (back in 1979), and how Bob told Johnnie he would get his 'fair share' eventually. I wouldn't overlook all this. Fingers was always fairly quietly spoken, so maybe there is some truth in what he is saying. He just didn't want to speak out, and when the Rats were having all their success it wasn't that important.

Mark L · Loudmouth

noelindublin wrote:
Mark L wrote:
ArrGee wrote:
noelindublin wrote:
... after passing up the chance to be involved in the Rats reunion-a reunion that would have made him a lot of money, as it has been quite successful, and ongoing.With Fingers on board we would have had 5 of the original 6 members.
... for people to just casually dismiss it as made up fiction by the Daily Mail is a bit baffling.

It was unrealistic of Fingers to have uprooted from Japan to play a few gigs. Neither Fingers nor Cott were actively playing Rats songs whereas their replacements were. Maybe it would be like riding a bike but the impracticalites of Fingers just flying in for gigs were probably a factor in him not participating. Also as far as ca$h is concerned, there is probably far more to be made from the royalties than the performances.
I don't think anyone has dismissed it as made up fiction, I think the term prattle refers to the making a mountain out of a molehill as far as the story goes as in prattling on about nothing in particular where Geldof is concerned. Who knows, may just be PR to help flog a few tickets for the Belfast/Dublin gigs next year.

ArrGee has hit the nail on the head. Far from suggesting the Mail or others had made the story up, I actually questioned why Fingers had taken 37 years to raise this. Noel, you appear not to understand the definition of 'prattle' - Google it and nowhere are you likely to find 'fiction' as an association. I absolutely feel that outside the 'Boomtown bubble' this is just not important and nowhere near as serious as Aleppo, Mosul or the like and it will die a death well before the steps of the Court.
Like an insurance company faced with a spurious whiplash claim, it will be cheaper for Geldof to work out what it will take to get rid of the damned thing, than to expensively win his day in court. Where anything was co-written, Geldof properly co-credited (like Banana Republic or Like Clockwork etc). Why wouldn't he have done the same with this track?
The other 4 and studio staff will know a lot about this. It is not credible that they don't. But with this song being written so long ago (even before Margaret Thatcher's tenure over here began) might they say diplomatically that they can't remember?
Once again, I cannot believe the bile being dished out to Geldof in the comments sections of these papers. How did it come to this? If public opinion counts for anything, Fingers would walk it.
He doesn't deserve to. That's just my opinion. I would find in Geldof's favour on the present evidence.
It might not be an 'important' story, but it certainly is interesting, and I suspect a lot of newspaper readers would click on or read this story rather than read about the Syrian civil war or the battle against IS. You might say it's a 'human interest' story, about old friends at loggerheads.
I agree with you Mark about the likelihood of it being settled out of court. Back in 1985 Geldof and Fingers did an interview with BP Fallon for RTE radio, in which BP asks Fingers if he remembers how Mondays was written, and Fingers says that Bob asked him to come up with some piano argeggios for the song. Fingers was a pianist since he was very young, so with the complexity of the melody I would say Fingers deserves as much credit as Bob. Also the fact that Fingers played the song live for so long equally gives him some moral authority to claim some of the royalties.
I wouldn't worry too much about the bilious comments from self selecting newspaper readers. I've seen Geldof being treated as a total star all over the UK when the Rats play live,so it's a case of 'watch out for the normal people, there's more of us than there's of you....' ie more fair minded people, I'd like to think.
Was Fingers making up the comment about he received an 'intimidating' phone call from Bob, and how Bob claimed that Fingers asking for co credit for writing the song might lead to a split in the band (back in 1979), and how Bob told Johnnie he would get his 'fair share' eventually. I wouldn't overlook all this. Fingers was always fairly quietly spoken, so maybe there is some truth in what he is saying. He just didn't want to speak out, and when the Rats were having all their success it wasn't that important.

Many readers will go to Page 3 to keep abreast of developments rather than read anything of importance, so that's why this story is press prattle rather than press priority. The RTE interview sounds like it would help Fingers' case but what troubles me is the time gap.

Why is it that so much of what went on in the 1970s is correctable only in the 2010's by payment of compensation?

noelindublin · Loudmouth

Mark L wrote:
noelindublin wrote:
Mark L wrote:
ArrGee wrote:
noelindublin wrote:
... after passing up the chance to be involved in the Rats reunion-a reunion that would have made him a lot of money, as it has been quite successful, and ongoing.With Fingers on board we would have had 5 of the original 6 members.
... for people to just casually dismiss it as made up fiction by the Daily Mail is a bit baffling.

It was unrealistic of Fingers to have uprooted from Japan to play a few gigs. Neither Fingers nor Cott were actively playing Rats songs whereas their replacements were. Maybe it would be like riding a bike but the impracticalites of Fingers just flying in for gigs were probably a factor in him not participating. Also as far as ca$h is concerned, there is probably far more to be made from the royalties than the performances.
I don't think anyone has dismissed it as made up fiction, I think the term prattle refers to the making a mountain out of a molehill as far as the story goes as in prattling on about nothing in particular where Geldof is concerned. Who knows, may just be PR to help flog a few tickets for the Belfast/Dublin gigs next year.

ArrGee has hit the nail on the head. Far from suggesting the Mail or others had made the story up, I actually questioned why Fingers had taken 37 years to raise this. Noel, you appear not to understand the definition of 'prattle' - Google it and nowhere are you likely to find 'fiction' as an association. I absolutely feel that outside the 'Boomtown bubble' this is just not important and nowhere near as serious as Aleppo, Mosul or the like and it will die a death well before the steps of the Court.
Like an insurance company faced with a spurious whiplash claim, it will be cheaper for Geldof to work out what it will take to get rid of the damned thing, than to expensively win his day in court. Where anything was co-written, Geldof properly co-credited (like Banana Republic or Like Clockwork etc). Why wouldn't he have done the same with this track?
The other 4 and studio staff will know a lot about this. It is not credible that they don't. But with this song being written so long ago (even before Margaret Thatcher's tenure over here began) might they say diplomatically that they can't remember?
Once again, I cannot believe the bile being dished out to Geldof in the comments sections of these papers. How did it come to this? If public opinion counts for anything, Fingers would walk it.
He doesn't deserve to. That's just my opinion. I would find in Geldof's favour on the present evidence.
It might not be an 'important' story, but it certainly is interesting, and I suspect a lot of newspaper readers would click on or read this story rather than read about the Syrian civil war or the battle against IS. You might say it's a 'human interest' story, about old friends at loggerheads.
I agree with you Mark about the likelihood of it being settled out of court. Back in 1985 Geldof and Fingers did an interview with BP Fallon for RTE radio, in which BP asks Fingers if he remembers how Mondays was written, and Fingers says that Bob asked him to come up with some piano argeggios for the song. Fingers was a pianist since he was very young, so with the complexity of the melody I would say Fingers deserves as much credit as Bob. Also the fact that Fingers played the song live for so long equally gives him some moral authority to claim some of the royalties.
I wouldn't worry too much about the bilious comments from self selecting newspaper readers. I've seen Geldof being treated as a total star all over the UK when the Rats play live,so it's a case of 'watch out for the normal people, there's more of us than there's of you....' ie more fair minded people, I'd like to think.
Was Fingers making up the comment about he received an 'intimidating' phone call from Bob, and how Bob claimed that Fingers asking for co credit for writing the song might lead to a split in the band (back in 1979), and how Bob told Johnnie he would get his 'fair share' eventually. I wouldn't overlook all this. Fingers was always fairly quietly spoken, so maybe there is some truth in what he is saying. He just didn't want to speak out, and when the Rats were having all their success it wasn't that important.
Many readers will go to Page 3 to keep abreast of developments rather than read anything of importance, so that's why this story is press prattle rather than press priority. The RTE interview sounds like it would help Fingers' case but what troubles me is the time gap.
Why is it that so much of what went on in the 1970s is correctable only in the 2010's by payment of compensation?

Broadly the job of the press in to report news, both of high importance and lots of lesser stories too. I only read newspapers online nowadays, can't remember the last time I actually bought a newspaper. I listen to the radio a lot, so that's my main source of daily news ie rte radio and BBC 5 live. The papers are always out of date, though good for filling out detail the tv/radio can skimp on.

I find the time gap for Fingers case very surprising too. Though the Procol Harum is interesting and similar in lots of ways.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8176352.stm

noelindublin · Loudmouth

ArrGee wrote:
Mark L wrote:
I absolutely feel that outside the 'Boomtown bubble' this is just not important...
...
Once again, I cannot believe the bile being dished out to Geldof in the comments sections of these papers. How did it come to this?
A court case would be exciting though. All adds to the legend. Better than the chummy chummy Pulp, ain't it? Fancy doing something like giving everyone in the band a songwriting credit, how dull. Could end up like this... What a judge said about the rock star Morrissey. or this... Spandau Face Ruin.
I haven't read the comments as I haven't followed any of the links, but had this been any other of Geldof's peers, it wouldn't even make the press. It is a back handed compliment that he is still newsworthy. Maybe for all the wrong reasons, but without this sort of thing and the Primark nonsense people would barely know the Rats were a going concern.
The only real issue is the timing. It should have been in the week or so leading up to the Irish dates to flog a few more tickets. Not sure it will have much impact in Dubai.

Chummy old Pulp:

Jarvis =Geldof

Candina =Fingers

Steve Mackey =Pete Briqutte

Nick Banks = Simon Crowe

Mark Webber = Garry Roberts

Russell Senior = Gerry Cott (both left their respective bands at the height of their success)

jamieuka · House on Fire

I'm not too surprised about this actually. I think Fingers has been hinting at this over the years. Do I recall an interview in more recent decades where he said he was a bit lazy in asserting his contributions? There are some lyrics to back this up e.g. 'me I'm just a little bit lazy', 'Johnnie had the right but he never took the chance' etc. Where did I get the impression that BG would typically bring bare bones musical ideas then quickly get bored and leave his band mates and/or producer to come up with the rest?

On the other hand, we have the Dudgeon tapes. Anyone who's only ever heard the Wainman released version can be forgiven for concluding the piano player makes the song what it is. However, the earlier 'reggae tinged' version reveals a fully formed song, where Finger's recorded contributions are limited to keyboards (not piano) and, well, they're no Whiter Shade of Pale.

Mark L · Loudmouth

The lyrics quoted are from Another Sad Story and not to do with songwriting, moreover love lost re Fingers.

Fingers are in the till and it's not edifying to watch. Far more people are with Fingers if the press 'comments' sections are anything to go by, but I'm with Geldof on this one.

As one Mondays review put it, 'Geldof dipped into his back pocket and pulled out a work of genius'. I know Geldof didn't like that (realistic) review at the time.

Fingers seems to care even less for it now.

noelindublin · Loudmouth

There's hope for Johnnie yet......(from todays BBC news website)

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-37750558

Mark L · Loudmouth

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=95-2Rog6Se0

Just in case Mr Fingers needs the lyrics to this song, someone has curiously posted them to You Tube.

He shouldn't need them, he co-wrote the song and is appropriately credited.

It's Lying Again, by the way. In more ways than one?

noelindublin · Loudmouth

Mark L wrote:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=95-2Rog6Se0
Just in case Mr Fingers needs the lyrics to this song, someone has curiously posted them to You Tube.
He shouldn't need them, he co-wrote the song and is appropriately credited.
It's Lying Again, by the way. In more ways than one?

Wouldn't worry about that.It's just more computer driven junk,even saying the song is from Tonic For The Troops. Still to bring a case to the High Court must take a lot of time and work and cost.Hardly the sort of thing one does if there is not at least some semblance of truth in Fingers case.

MY only knowledge of Fingers is as rather mild mannered, laid back sort of guy. This from a few radio interviews down the years. Anyway it's pretty awful when bands start fighting. For a long time Simon and Johnnie were pretty bitter with Bob and Pete. In a 2007 interview Fingers said he hadn't listened to any of the Rats albums for years ( about 22 I reckon at that stage)

Not sure if Andy Partridge and Colin Moulding from XTC are talking. The fell out a few years ago after years of being the heart and soul of XTC. Same with The Smiths, more bad blood there. Probably in all cases a mix of ego and money not helping.

Mark L · Loudmouth

Money is the green-eyed monster and some people will say and do the most mendacious of things, even if it jeopardises or actually forfeits someone's liberty for life, so tapping into what they see as just a small proportion of someone else's vast wealth, will be no issue to them.

Not saying this is what Fingers is up to, but it is at least feasible?

-- Edited by Mark L on Friday 28th of October 2016 01:05:13 PM

Rats Fan · Never In A Million Years

I'm a professional songwriter and member of PRS (I'm not saying this to be a noddy know all dick! Promise! Just because I have been involved in a similar case. And think this case is sadly to do with the law rather than the morals).

Morally I think the piano part is crucial to the success of the song. Fingers is uniquely gifted and made a MASSIVE huge contribution to the song.

As far as I understand the case- Fingers cannot claim a 50% co-writers claim. Because of the rather unfair way PRS allows a song to be registered as oppose to a moral claim.

With PRS- the ONLY parts of the song you can fully register are the Vocal Melody (not an instrumental part). This being 50%. And the lyrics this being the other 50%.

The lyrics are certainly written in their entirety by Geldof.

The vocal melody (which he claims was based on Elvis Costello's hit 'Oliver's Army') - is not that complicated a melody and (I would contend different enough in it's final form to be far enough removed from Costello for a claim in that area to be insubstantial).

The piano arrangement- which frankly there is no way Geldof can have contributed to. Does NOT count as the song in it's registered form with PRS. They do not value it as composition it is an 'arrangement'. Fingers could legitimately and probably successfully win a court case claiming an 'arranger's fee' from PRS. For creating the piano arrangement of the song. This would earn him a 10% fee every time that arrangement of 'I Don't Like Mondays' is played live or broadcast. But this is distinct from the composition of the song in PRS's eyes.

I do not particularly agree with how PRS operates but this is how they do. Cases have been made that an instrumental melody contained within a song as distinct from the vocal melody is composition. Very very occasionally they are successful. But this is extremely rare. And also the passage of time tends to mean in many (but not all cases) that the judge rules to keep things as they are.

Fingers could have collected an arranger's fee for years without this affecting Geldof's royalties at all. They are categorised completely separately. And Fingers could have earned a tidy sum. I believe Geldof will win this case in court for these reasons. (I believe a co-write credit for Fingers is perhaps warranted. But in terms of how a song is legally registered with PRS. Geldof will win.

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

Rats Fan wrote:
With PRS- the ONLY parts of the song you can fully register are the Vocal Melody (not an instrumental part). This being 50%. And the lyrics this being the other 50%.

Which explains this...

I wonder how Lennon and McCartney squared this circle. Aside for some obvious collaborations like A Day in The Life, the majority of songs from Rubber Soul onwards were written by one of the other.

Rats Fan wrote:
The vocal melody (which he claims was based on Elvis Costello's hit 'Oliver's Army') - is not that complicated a melody and (I would contend different enough in it's final form to be far enough removed from Costello for a claim in that area to be insubstantial).

Aside from a similarity in the structure of the verses, they have little in common. The piano arrangements are the best part of both.

-- Edited by ArrGee on Tuesday 1st of November 2016 11:13:07 AM

noelindublin · Loudmouth

Rats Fan wrote:
I'm a professional songwriter and member of PRS (I'm not saying this to be a noddy know all dick! Promise! Just because I have been involved in a similar case. And think this case is sadly to do with the law rather than the morals).
Morally I think the piano part is crucial to the success of the song. Fingers is uniquely gifted and made a MASSIVE huge contribution to the song.
As far as I understand the case- Fingers cannot claim a 50% co-writers claim. Because of the rather unfair way PRS allows a song to be registered as oppose to a moral claim.

With PRS- the ONLY parts of the song you can fully register are the Vocal Melody (not an instrumental part). This being 50%. And the lyrics this being the other 50%.
The lyrics are certainly written in their entirety by Geldof.
The vocal melody (which he claims was based on Elvis Costello's hit 'Oliver's Army') - is not that complicated a melody and (I would contend different enough in it's final form to be far enough removed from Costello for a claim in that area to be insubstantial).
The piano arrangement- which frankly there is no way Geldof can have contributed to. Does NOT count as the song in it's registered form with PRS. They do not value it as composition it is an 'arrangement'. Fingers could legitimately and probably successfully win a court case claiming an 'arranger's fee' from PRS. For creating the piano arrangement of the song. This would earn him a 10% fee every time that arrangement of 'I Don't Like Mondays' is played live or broadcast. But this is distinct from the composition of the song in PRS's eyes.

I do not particularly agree with how PRS operates but this is how they do. Cases have been made that an instrumental melody contained within a song as distinct from the vocal melody is composition. Very very occasionally they are successful. But this is extremely rare. And also the passage of time tends to mean in many (but not all cases) that the judge rules to keep things as they are.

Fingers could have collected an arranger's fee for years without this affecting Geldof's royalties at all. They are categorised completely separately. And Fingers could have earned a tidy sum. I believe Geldof will win this case in court for these reasons. (I believe a co-write credit for Fingers is perhaps warranted. But in terms of how a song is legally registered with PRS. Geldof will win.

Fiachra Trench is credited with the 'string arrangement' on IDLM. He has worked with loads of well known artists incl The Pogues and Kate Bush and has loads of credits to his name. Maybe he should get a cut too! Quite an interesting guy if you read his story, has been around since the sixties in various guises. I presume he was able to advise Geldof and Fingers on how the song would sound best.

http://www.independent.ie/regionals/wicklowpeople/news/fiachra-has-worked-on-a-variety-of-musical-hits-27822851.htm

http://www.pulsecollege.eu/fiachra-trench-guest-lecturer-profile/

-- Edited by noelindublin on Tuesday 1st of November 2016 12:43:59 PM

-- Edited by noelindublin on Tuesday 1st of November 2016 12:45:21 PM

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

noelindublin wrote:
Fiachra Trench is credited with the 'string arrangement' on IDLM. He has worked with loads of well known artists incl The Pogues and Kate Bush and has loads of credits to his name. Maybe he should get a cut too! Quite an interesting guy if you read his story, has been around since the sixties in various guises. I presume he was able to advise Geldof and Fingers on how the song would sound best.
http://www.independent.ie/regionals/wicklowpeople/news/fiachra-has-worked-on-a-variety-of-musical-hits-27822851.htm
http://www.pulsecollege.eu/fiachra-trench-guest-lecturer-profile/

Fiachra better join the queue!

Brenda Spencer will be staking a claim soon. Though her case is a bit weak as according to her parole hearing she can't recall having actually said "I Don't Like Mondays". It may have been invented by the San Diego Tribune reporters, in which case they should claim royalties! The Atlanta Radio telex machine should also make a claim, even though Geldof and Fingers were in the UK at the time watching the story on the TV.

When the legend becomes fact, print the legend.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/05/30/the-first-modern-school-shooter-feels-responsible-for-the-rest.html

I dont like Mondays, she famously replied when asked her motive. Spencer has since said she does not remember making the remark that inspired a song by the Boomtown Rats and became a kind of anthem for many of the school shooters who followed.

http://articles.latimes.com/1998/jan/21/news/mn-10587

Amid the shooting spree, Spencer unwittingly was reached on the telephone by two reporters from the San Diego Evening Tribune who, while attempting to call neighbors, hadn't realized that they had reached her house. She told them that she had opened fire because, "I don't like Mondays. This livens up the day."

PS No one else is claiming any responsibility for Another Piece of Red or Charmed Lives

noelindublin · Loudmouth

ArrGee wrote:
noelindublin wrote:
Fiachra Trench is credited with the 'string arrangement' on IDLM. He has worked with loads of well known artists incl The Pogues and Kate Bush and has loads of credits to his name. Maybe he should get a cut too! Quite an interesting guy if you read his story, has been around since the sixties in various guises. I presume he was able to advise Geldof and Fingers on how the song would sound best.
http://www.independent.ie/regionals/wicklowpeople/news/fiachra-has-worked-on-a-variety-of-musical-hits-27822851.htm
http://www.pulsecollege.eu/fiachra-trench-guest-lecturer-profile/
Fiachra better join the queue!
Brenda Spencer will be staking a claim soon. Though her case is a bit weak as according to her parole hearing she can't recall having actually said "I Don't Like Mondays". It may have been invented by the San Diego Tribune reporters, in which case they should claim royalties! The Atlanta Radio telex machine should also make a claim, even though Geldof and Fingers were in the UK at the time watching the story on the TV.
When the legend becomes fact, print the legend.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/05/30/the-first-modern-school-shooter-feels-responsible-for-the-rest.html
I dont like Mondays, she famously replied when asked her motive. Spencer has since said she does not remember making the remark that inspired a song by the Boomtown Rats and became a kind of anthem for many of the school shooters who followed.
http://articles.latimes.com/1998/jan/21/news/mn-10587
Amid the shooting spree, Spencer unwittingly was reached on the telephone by two reporters from the San Diego Evening Tribune who, while attempting to call neighbors, hadn't realized that they had reached her house. She told them that she had opened fire because, "I don't like Mondays. This livens up the day."

PS No one else is claiming any responsibility for Another Piece of Red or Charmed Lives

I'm always slightly amazed that the song has not prompted another 'Monday massacre', God forbid. Song is well known enough by now( esp in the USA) and no shortage of nutters with guns over there. smile

Anyone interested in real life Rats related material could do worse than check out some of the documentaries about Howard Hughes. His latter years are really interesting, with him being a virtual recluse who never washed as he was afraid of contamination. Also he grew an enormous beard and didn't shave for years allegedly.I watched a few of these docs a while back, they are more or less factual rather than sensationalist. Hughes died in 1976, two years before Me and Howard Hughes was written.I thought the song was written in revenge for the Rats being kicked out of one of Hughes hotels. Last confirmed photo of Hughes was taken about 25 years before he died.

Also some great docs about Eva Braun on the net. Bizarrely she married Hitler a few hours before they both committed suicide. Hitlers original 'girlfriend' also committed suicide .

jamieuka · House on Fire

ArrGee wrote:
I wonder how Lennon and McCartney squared this circle.

I have this *friend*, right, who used to have some Status Quo LPs and *he* noticed that occasionally there'd be a song apparently written by the whole band because it was credited to Rossi/Parfitt/Lancaster/Coghlan/Young (are they the members of the band? *I* don't know.) Anyway, my *friend* was later reading the autobiography written *entirely* by Rossi and Parfitt (and definitely *not* Nick Wall, just like Geldof *totally* wrote his own autobiography), and Rossi said he and Bob Young sometimes added the other band members' names to the credits just to keep them happy when the royalty cheques came in: "it was the simplest way to keep the peace. It was either that or start recording songs the others had written that might not be as good but were done just to throw them a bone. 'Stuff that,' I said, 'We should only record the best stuff, whoever writes it. We'll go with the four[sic]-way credit.'"

Anyway, I'm off to read this great book I'm in the middle of which *isn't* Phil Collins's recent autobiography.

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

jamieuka wrote:
ArrGee wrote:
I wonder how Lennon and McCartney squared this circle.

It was either that or start recording songs the others had written that might not be as good but were done just to throw them a bone.

There is only one Rats song where the whole band got a credit. Garry's only one. Ringo did two for the Beatles including a Danish #1.

Truth told there is so little from Briquette/Cott/Fingers/Crowe/Roberts post Ratexit that it suggests that Geldof was pretty much the only songwritter.

suss · House on Fire

ArrGee wrote:
There is only one Rats song where the whole band got a credit. Garry's only one.

That the same one that was reportedly produced by 'the entire population of Holland'?

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

suss wrote:
ArrGee wrote:
There is only one Rats song where the whole band got a credit. Garry's only one.
That the same one that was reportedly produced by 'the entire population of Holland'?

DUN LAOGHAIRE - wasn't aware the Dutch all produced it!

PS Ringo has 5 writing credits with the Beatles, 2 solo 3 joint. Didn't prevent him making a £150m fortune though. Mostly from Thomas The Tank Engine I guess.

-- Edited by ArrGee on Thursday 3rd of November 2016 09:17:44 PM

suss · House on Fire

The very same....wonder if there's a claim to be had there? Lucky it wasn't a best seller!

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

suss wrote:
The very same....wonder if there's a claim to be had there? Lucky it wasn't a best seller!

I trust the Dutch were paid the producers fee otherwise that will be one for the European courts to deal with. Geldof will be stony broke defending all these cases

Mark L · Loudmouth

Never mind this possible Court case. Have a listen to this 1990 Lenor advert from around 30 seconds in. Why does the live piano end to Rat Trap come to mind?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XF9mV4wBkKs

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

Rats Fan wrote:
With PRS- the ONLY parts of the song you can fully register are the Vocal Melody (not an instrumental part). This being 50%. And the lyrics this being the other 50%.
The lyrics are certainly written in their entirety by Geldof.
The vocal melody (which he claims was based on Elvis Costello's hit 'Oliver's Army') - is not that complicated a melody and (I would contend different enough in it's final form to be far enough removed from Costello for a claim in that area to be insubstantial).
The piano arrangement- which frankly there is no way Geldof can have contributed to. Does NOT count as the song in it's registered form with PRS. They do not value it as composition it is an 'arrangement'. Fingers could legitimately and probably successfully win a court case claiming an 'arranger's fee' from PRS. For creating the piano arrangement of the song. This would earn him a 10% fee every time that arrangement of 'I Don't Like Mondays' is played live or broadcast. But this is distinct from the composition of the song in PRS's eyes.
Fingers could have collected an arranger's fee for years without this affecting Geldof's royalties at all. They are categorised completely separately. And Fingers could have earned a tidy sum. I believe Geldof will win this case in court for these reasons. (I believe a co-write credit for Fingers is perhaps warranted. But in terms of how a song is legally registered with PRS. Geldof will win.

The reason I wouldn't bet the house on it.

colinegypt · She's So Modern

I find this whole thing interesting and for what it's worth, here are my thoughts......

The version of 'Mondays' included in the Dudgeon sessions (which I like because of its energy and novelty value) is a pretty much completed song. The lyric differs a bit from what was eventually released but the song seems effectively 'complete' albeit with a totally different arrangement. I've often wondered about the conversations that took place between the Dudgeon Session version and the general release....how did they take the structure and the lyric from the 'Sessions' and re-work it with the piano and string arrangements to produce what was to become a world-wide hit? Who would even suggest that it was worth trying?

This makes me think there may be something to Fingers' claim - does the Dudgeon Session version show what Bob had been able to do with the song and does the general release with its piano and strings, hint at the subsequent involvement of others. With Fingers as the band's keyboard player, it would make sense that he was involved in the inclusion of piano in the rearrangement.

Then there are the separate claims that Fingers wasn't given credit for his contributions. I'm not sure about this......'Mondays' was on the same album as 'Sleep' (aka 'Fingers' Lullaby). Not only does Fingers get full credit, his name is front and center as part of the song title. This to me weakens his arguments that he didn't get credit for his contributions - to some extent he clearly was being recognised.

Without knowing anymore about it, my take is that Fingers was probably instrumental (see what I did there?) in the re-arrangement of Mondays after the Dudgeon Sessions - the released version clearly benefits from a keyboard player's input. Unlike his involvement in re-arrangeing 'Monday's' however, the inclusion of 'Finger's Lullaby' on the same LP doesn't make me feel his contribution as a song writer was being ignored.

If I'm anywhere near the truth (I'm probably miles off!) the issue for the courts would seem to be this: to what extent does re-arranging a song - even to the extent that Mondays was transformed - justify inclusion in the songwriting credits????

Col

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

colinegypt wrote:
If I'm anywhere near the truth (I'm probably miles off!) the issue for the courts would seem to be this: to what extent does re-arranging a song - even to the extent that Mondays was transformed - justify inclusion in the songwriting credits????

Arguably it was de-arranged. The San Diego live rendition pre dates the Dudgeon session and they went back to that version as none of the rearranging worked. Ultimately I don't think Fingers has a hope of winning this. It has been so long since it happened and it will be his word against Geldof's. And as Geldof evidently wrote almost all the songs I can't see any judge siding with Fingers. But I could be wrong. I suspect Fingers is angling to settle out of court like the others.

noelindublin · Loudmouth

colinegypt wrote:
I find this whole thing interesting and for what it's worth, here are my thoughts......
The version of 'Mondays' included in the Dudgeon sessions (which I like because of its energy and novelty value) is a pretty much completed song. The lyric differs a bit from what was eventually released but the song seems effectively 'complete' albeit with a totally different arrangement. I've often wondered about the conversations that took place between the Dudgeon Session version and the general release....how did they take the structure and the lyric from the 'Sessions' and re-work it with the piano and string arrangements to produce what was to become a world-wide hit? Who would even suggest that it was worth trying?
This makes me think there may be something to Fingers' claim - does the Dudgeon Session version show what Bob had been able to do with the song and does the general release with its piano and strings, hint at the subsequent involvement of others. With Fingers as the band's keyboard player, it would make sense that he was involved in the inclusion of piano in the rearrangement.
Then there are the separate claims that Fingers wasn't given credit for his contributions. I'm not sure about this......'Mondays' was on the same album as 'Sleep' (aka 'Fingers' Lullaby). Not only does Fingers get full credit, his name is front and center as part of the song title. This to me weakens his arguments that he didn't get credit for his contributions - to some extent he clearly was being recognised.
Without knowing anymore about it, my take is that Fingers was probably instrumental (see what I did there?) in the re-arrangement of Mondays after the Dudgeon Sessions - the released version clearly benefits from a keyboard player's input. Unlike his involvement in re-arrangeing 'Monday's' however, the inclusion of 'Finger's Lullaby' on the same LP doesn't make me feel his contribution as a song writer was being ignored.
If I'm anywhere near the truth (I'm probably miles off!) the issue for the courts would seem to be this: to what extent does re-arranging a song - even to the extent that Mondays was transformed - justify inclusion in the songwriting credits????
Col

The whole thing is a bit confusing, never mind the fog of war what about the fog of the recording studio? smile One could probably do a forensic timeline analysis and piece together the main facts but I suspect it's all down to one persons word against another in the end.

Maybe worth watching again is a video previously linked by Mark of Mondays producer Phil Wainman.He gives some detail about the recording and engineering of the song from about 1 hour in. He omits to mention that Fiacra Trench was brought in to work on the strings, another important contributer to the song's soundl:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2fJ-d6Xm3M

Andy Jackson wiki :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Jackson_%28recording_engineer%29

The engineer Wainman mentions is AndY Jackson, then a junior at Utopia studios,who seems to have brought the requisite 'fairy dust' to the song.

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

noelindublin wrote:
One could probably do a forensic timeline analysis and piece together the main facts but I suspect it's all down to one persons word against another in the end.

You'd go wrong from the start doing that as they weren't even in Atlanta looking at a telex machine!

noelindublin · Loudmouth

ArrGee wrote:
noelindublin wrote:
One could probably do a forensic timeline analysis and piece together the main facts but I suspect it's all down to one persons word against another in the end.
You'd go wrong from the start doing that as they weren't even in Atlanta looking at a telex machine!

Are you sure about this? I think that they might have been on a college radio station promo tour to promote the US tour which began in San Diego on 27 Feb 1979. Last listed UK gig was Rainbow on 15 Dec 1978. They had nearly a month and a half off so going to America to plug the forthcoming gigs seems the sort of thing Geldof would do (and didn't he state he loved the US record company to provide lovely posh hotels and all costs in one interview I remember reading!)

US TOUR START 28 FEB 1979.
Fox Theatre, San Diego
Rainbow Music Hall, Denver, Colorado
Go Go/Cocoanut Grove, Los Angeles
Japan Center Theater, San Francisco
Seattle Paramount (KISW Catch A Rising Star)
Opera House, Lawrence, Kansas
Capri Ballroom, Atlanta
New York
Park West, Chicago

noelindublin · Loudmouth

Some photos of Rats on promo tour 29 January 1979 Atlanta GA Geld0f reading local paper!

Image result for BOOMTOWN RATS ATLANTA 1979

if you check google images Boomtown Rats Atlanta 1979 there are at over ten photos showing Geldof and Fingers on a promo tour in Atlanta dated 29 January 1979. I rest my case. smile

-- Edited by noelindublin on Tuesday 16th of May 2017 11:49:32 AM

noelindublin · Loudmouth

Atlanta promo tour 29 Jan 1979 WRAS Radio( Georgia State University campus)with telex.

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

Of course, they took all the pictures that day knowing he would write the song...

... Listen to the San Diego recording.

noelindublin · Loudmouth

ArrGee wrote:
Of course, they took all the pictures that day knowing he would write the song...

... Listen to the San Diego recording.

Fact: day/time of shooting was Monday morning 29 Jan 1979. You say no Rats were in Atlanta on that day. At least ten photos prove otherwise.Blow up the Geldof/Fingers Atlanta Gazette and see that it covers the week 29 Jan-4 Feb. If you look at the google images of Boomtown Rats Atlanta 1979 they are all dated that date ie Monday 29 Jan 1979.

The fact that pictures exist of Geldof with telex machine is more about the novelty value of telex machine rather than a premonition of Geldof going to write a hit song. The pics than exist are quite interesting and well worth a look. The whole point of going was to get publicity and there is a range of different photos.

The San Diego performance is one month later approx so Geldof and Fingers presumably would have been working on the song. San Diego was the first live performance. It's likely they initially worked on the song in the US while the idea was fresh, and then continued at it back in London.Evidently it was still being worked out when they played it in San Diego.

Are you still saying none of the Rats were in Atlanta on the day of the shooting?Just a bit puzzled.

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

noelindublin wrote:
The San Diego performance is one month later approx so Geldof and Fingers presumably would have been working on the song. San Diego was the first live performance. It's likely they initially worked on the song in the US while the idea was fresh, and then continued at it back in London.Evidently it was still being worked out when they played it in San Diego.
Are you still saying none of the Rats were in Atlanta on the day of the shooting?Just a bit puzzled.

Why would Geldof less than a month after the event say on stage that he saw the news report on the TV in London?

noelindublin · Loudmouth

ArrGee wrote:
noelindublin wrote:
The San Diego performance is one month later approx so Geldof and Fingers presumably would have been working on the song. San Diego was the first live performance. It's likely they initially worked on the song in the US while the idea was fresh, and then continued at it back in London.Evidently it was still being worked out when they played it in San Diego.
Are you still saying none of the Rats were in Atlanta on the day of the shooting?Just a bit puzzled.
Why would Geldof less than a month after the event say on stage that he saw the news report on the TV in London?

Do you have his exact words re news report in London? Geldof certaily s eems to have been fascinated by the telex machine on day of shooting ie 29 Jan 1979 judging by the photos taken on that day. It's possible that the stories featured while Geldof was at the studio in Atlanda were more humdrum, prosaic and that he didn't hear news of the shootings that way, and only learnt of them later. Thought this seems unlikely. The shooting took place in the morning so the telex would have been reporting the news, if not live then pretty shortly after the fact. Also it's possibly that the news item on London was a few days later and Geldof just got a bit mixed up when he said he saw the item on the news in London.

Image result for BOOMTOWN RATS ATLANTA 1979

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

To quote Geldof addressing the audience at the start of I Don't Like Mondays on the two nights in San Diego...

27-Feb-1979 "Is there anybody here who goes to the sierra macer gray school ? about a month ago we read in the paper in England about Debbie Spencer, I think it was, Linda? who took a gun and went down to the school and shot up her friends..."

28-Feb-1979 "What happened was we were watching the box in London and next minute san diego came on the TV screen and there was a picture of this girl, I think it was Brenda Spencer who decided one day that she'd get up take her Christmas present, go down to the school where she was and kill or try and kill a lot of her friends."

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

noelindublin wrote:
Geldof certaily s eems to have been fascinated by the telex machine on day of shooting ie 29 Jan 1979 judging by the photos taken on that day.

How do you know when the pictures were taken? How do you know where they were taken? How do you know the broadcast was on that date? And what time were they at the radio station?

noelindublin · Loudmouth

ArrGee wrote:
noelindublin wrote:
Geldof certaily s eems to have been fascinated by the telex machine on day of shooting ie 29 Jan 1979 judging by the photos taken on that day.
How do you know when the pictures were taken? How do you know where they were taken? How do you know the broadcast was on that date? And what time were they at the radio station?

Most of the photos of Geldof and Fingers state both Jan 01 1979 and also 29 Jan 1979. You need to google Boomtown Rats images Atlanta 1979 first.Jan 1 is a bit too close to Christmas/New Year for Geldof and Fingers to be away in America so the more likely date is 29 Jan 1979. The fact that Geldof and Fingers are reading the Atlanta Gizetee covering the week 29 Jan -4 Feb 1979 seems indisputible.The photos are catalogued by getty images and give date and location.

Most of the images are supplied by Getty images. Click on title of photo and it gives details of the date created.

Blow up the image of Fingers and Geldof the I supplied earlier. Just press CTl and + to 'blow up' image and you will see the date on the paper says Jan 29-4 Feb( a weekly issue). It's pretty unlikely that this was restaged at a later date as the paper has nothing to do with the shootings.It is pretty convincing evidence for me that Geldof and Fingers actually were in Atlanta on 29 Jan 1979, the day of the shootings.

You basically need to look at Boomtown Rats images Atlanta 1979. They are all dated by Getty Images as 29 Jan 1979.That's an independent fact not my opinion.

There may be some confabulation on the part of Geldof but I can't dispute the evidence of my own eyes regarding the pictures.It basically proves that he and Fingers were in Atlanta on that date. I like a bit of detective work for my own amusement as much as finding the truth. smile

-- Edited by noelindublin on Friday 19th of May 2017 12:14:46 PM

-- Edited by noelindublin on Friday 19th of May 2017 12:17:22 PM

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

noelindublin wrote:
It basically proves that he and Fingers were in Atlanta on that date. I like a bit of detective work for my own amusement as much as finding the truth.

It proves they were reading an Atlanta paper dated around that time. The photographs could be taken anywhere and at any time afterwards. Also with weekly/monthly publications the date is less than conclusive. I have a copy of The Week in front of me dated 20 MAY 2017. And I am not a time lord.

The only "fact" is what Geldof said on stage in San Diego. That is dated and recorded and contradicts seeing the news report coming through on a telex machine in Atlanta which post dates hearing about it in London. And there are a few hundred witnesses to him saying that.

The picture of them larking around the telex machine; perhaps if you zoom in on that you would see the Brenda Spencer story...

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

http://magazine.gsu.edu/article/spanning-the-spectrum-for-40-years/

Here's the evidence - they are holding the actual Brenda Spencer telex on the day!!!!

While in the WRAS studio on Jan. 29, 1979, The Boomtown Rats lead singer Bob Geldof read a telex report about a shooting at an elementary school in San Diego. It provided the inspiration for the bands hit song I Dont Like Mondays. Here, Geldof (far right) and the bands keyboard player, Johnnie Fingers, hold the famed report alongside then-musical director Cledra White (far left) and DJ Ken Berg (B.A. 82).

manatthetop · In the Long Grass

For what it's worth. Geldof pointed out in his book. Is that it. That the band giver life to his songs. So ok Geldof hand written the song. But Finger's is all over this song. Should have been 50/50 But that was up to him to make sure of that back in the day. Just put it down to sleep.