Nigel Grainge RIP

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

Nigel Grainge RIP

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

An interview with Nigel from 1991 - and yes big mistake!

https://www.hotpress.com/Nigel-Grainge/music/interviews/The-Hitman-An-interview-with-Nigel-Grainge/20315964.html

In 1980, Ensign extricated itself from Phonogram and signed a licensing deal with RCA. The first casualty of that move was the Rats who insisted that Ensign sell them to Phonogram on the grounds that they were now too big for a small label.

"It was a really stupid and misguided thing for the Rats to do," reflects Grainge. "They thought we were holding them back and so rather than work though me they wanted to deal directly with the major. But what they were doing in reality was breaking a link in a successful chain. They plummeted like a stone the minute they left us and never again had another hit, not even one."

Mark L · Loudmouth

A mistake, yes but he forgot House on Fire. There was also more to the decline of the Rats than a record label change.

daggerrat · Never In A Million Years

Shame about the Gunner bit but RIP

Derek The Dane · V Deep

Elephants Graveyard was also a hit.

Mark L · Loudmouth

Derek The Dane wrote:
Elephants Graveyard was also a hit.

It was and not nearly as big a hit as it should have been either.

However, I think it was an Ensign release, so I was thinking of what came after it.

diffbrook · House on Fire

I think Elephants Graveyard was on the Mercury Phonogram label. However, despite being on the Mercury Mondo Bongo album the preceeding single Banana Republic was on Ensign....which I could never understand.

It may have been a contractual agreement, but usually contracts are about certain number of Albums.

Agree that the Rats decline had more to do with change in musical tastes and their own musical direction than simply a change of record label.

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

Mark L wrote:
There was also more to the decline of the Rats than a record label change.

Maybe, but I wonder if Mondo Bongo was an Ensign release if there would have been a bit more feedback on it from Nigel Grainge that may have resulted in a different LP. I don't know the inner workings but possibly Phil Wainman's production of the other tracks on Surfacing as such that Mutt Lange was called back by the label. Possibly he acted as a quality control and may have suggested change in producer. Might even have suggested single releases such as going with #1 instead of Do You In. And could have brought forward more commercial tracks like House on Fire and Up All Night onto Mondo and may even have had Go Man Go as a single.

All idle speculation, but meanwhile...

(The input on Banana Republic suggests a strong influence, and I have removed some rather inflammatory comments on the greatest team the world has ever seen)

https://www.musicweek.com/labels/read/bob-geldof-nigel-grainge-made-you-feel-anything-was-possible/068832

Music icon Sir Bob Geldof has spoken to Music Week about his relationship with friend and mentor Nigel Grainge, who passed away last week at the age of 70 following complications after recent surgery.

Grainge, the older brother of Universal Music boss Sir Lucian, began his music career in the 1970s and went on to sign and develop a range of artists from Sinead O'Connor to The Boomtown Rats, Thin Lizzy, The Waterboys, 10cc, World Party, Steve Miller Band, Eddy Grant, The Blue Aeroplanes, and Graham Parker & The Rumour, among many others.

Having played a pivotal role in launching the career of The Boomtown Rats, Grainge and frontman Geldof remained friends over the past four decades. And, according to Geldof, his career would never have been the same without Grainges vision or support, after the band signed with his label Ensign.

He loved the demo tapes when he heard them and went nuts, Geldof told Music Week. So he came over to see us at Cork University and he loved it. Backstage all he did was talk about music with us. He talked about R&B, the blues and asking if we knew this and saying we should do a version of that. He played records to us all the time, plus there was the fact he was staring his label, was just starting up, and he needed us to be a success for him to be a success. He absolutely needed us to break.

It was Nigel who brilliantly spotted this is his skill this little band out of Dublin with this very mouthy singer, Geldof continued. The press used to say, Who are these ****ers? What is this terrible noise theyre making? Nigel just got it and liked me giving it plenty of mouth!

Geldof also noted the fact that, in his eyes, Grainge wasnt, on the surface, the most obvious person to drive the Boomtown Rats into the mainstream.

He looked uncool, but what he had was impeccable music taste, Geldof laughed. That is where his taste shone through. And there was his family history. His dad owned the first record shop in North London and his little brother was this kid he dragged around to Rats gigs picking his nose called Lucian. He was just bringing his whole family into this thing he did.

During the bands formative years, Geldof claimed that it was Grainges passion and belief that allowed them to evolve from a group of young upstarts into one of Irelands most recognisable outfits.

He was such an enthusiast it was infectious, he continued. He made you believe anything was possible. He always remained the perfect sounding board. But it was awful going to play him your tracks. Seriously awful, because hed just go, Next, if he didn't like it. Then he would look up with a slack jaw and his eyes wide open and hed go, I dont ****ing believe it! Or just definitively, Thats a smash. But best of all, hed say, Thats a hit, but not like that. Thats what he said with I Dont Like Mondays. Id written it as a rock song but I played it to the band as a reggae track, and he heard it and came in and asked what it was. I said, Ah, its just ****. And he goes, Thats your next No.1. I said, Oh **** off, its at best a B-side, to which he said, That is your next No.1 but not like that.

He said that about Banana Republic. He said, Why dont you put the chorus at the front for ****s suck, its so obvious. I said, Thats lame! He goes, Put the chorus at the front, it's a single! His ears were just incredible. I mean, Sinéad [OConnor]. Just taking Sinéad and spotting Nothing Compares 2 U, an obscure Prince track.

For Geldof, Britain has lost one of its most influential and talented executives in Grainge. And, he said, his personal debt to Grainge is one that can never be repaid.

I dont know what this errant, mouthy, knobhead paddy would have done had Nigel not come along and hit me with the record stick, Geldof said. God knows what would have happened to me or the other guys. When I got the news I walked out of my house in Kent and it was a beautiful evening and I thought, I have this because of that guy. Literally it is that direct line in telling me what I had to do. He just understood that something could be made of this. And then for him to be a friend It was just a privilege knowing that man.

Away from the Boomtown Rats, Geldof also recalled one of his most recent memories of Grainge: When I got married a couple of years ago we were all in the south of France. Obviously we invited Nige. I had the sort of rocknroll people all together on one table and it was ****ing hilarious. He was really holding court. A lot of the players got up and we played on a little stage, and Nigel was right at the front watching. It was a racket and we were all completely pissed, but he was just in heaven.

Mark L · Loudmouth

It's possible, but times were changing and as Geldof said in the NY radio interview, after 4 or 5 years you're usually out on your a*ses anyway. Go man go was the obvious but absent-from-the-UK third single from MB but the sudden failure to ever crack the top 20 with Guilty seemed to render the group frozen with shock.

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

Mark L wrote:
It's possible, but times were changing and as Geldof said in the NY radio interview, after 4 or 5 years you're usually out on your a*ses anyway. Go man go was the obvious but absent-from-the-UK third single from MB but the sudden failure to ever crack the top 20 with Guilty seemed to render the group frozen with shock.

Had Up All Night and House on Fire been on Mondo Bongo (they were recorded for it) then there would have been five songs vying for a single release (Fall Down, Banana Republic & Guilty). With judicious single mixes, any could have been a hit. Have to admit I am still a bit surprised Guilty didn't do better at the time. It was a strange time with umpteen Adam & The Ants and John Lennon singles along with some novelty songs like Shaddup Yer Face in the charts and other total tosh. Even the Blondie hit machine only made #5 with the brilliant Rapture.

Mark L · Loudmouth

ArrGee wrote:
Mark L wrote:
It's possible, but times were changing and as Geldof said in the NY radio interview, after 4 or 5 years you're usually out on your a*ses anyway. Go man go was the obvious but absent-from-the-UK third single from MB but the sudden failure to ever crack the top 20 with Guilty seemed to render the group frozen with shock.
Had Up All Night and House on Fire been on Mondo Bongo (they were recorded for it) then there would have been five songs vying for a single release (Fall Down, Banana Republic & Guilty). With judicious single mixes, any could have been a hit. Have to admit I am still a bit surprised Guilty didn't do better at the time. It was a strange time with umpteen Adam & The Ants and John Lennon singles along with some novelty songs like Shaddup Yer Face in the charts and other total tosh. Even the Blondie hit machine only made #5 with the brilliant Rapture.

Surely with Go man go, there would have been six songs vying for release as a single? Or do you think they might have dropped it in favour of either Fire or Fall Down? I would have dropped the grossly over-indulgent and lazy Mood Mambo.

Is the Irish single version of GMG simply the same as the album version?

Guilty suffered from the absence of the usual boost that a TOTP airing gave a single at that time. It could have appeared at position 40 or 26 but the BEEB chose not to air it.

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

Mark L wrote:
ArrGee wrote:
Mark L wrote:
It's possible, but times were changing and as Geldof said in the NY radio interview, after 4 or 5 years you're usually out on your a*ses anyway. Go man go was the obvious but absent-from-the-UK third single from MB but the sudden failure to ever crack the top 20 with Guilty seemed to render the group frozen with shock.
Had Up All Night and House on Fire been on Mondo Bongo (they were recorded for it) then there would have been five songs vying for a single release (Fall Down, Banana Republic & Guilty). With judicious single mixes, any could have been a hit. Have to admit I am still a bit surprised Guilty didn't do better at the time. It was a strange time with umpteen Adam & The Ants and John Lennon singles along with some novelty songs like Shaddup Yer Face in the charts and other total tosh. Even the Blondie hit machine only made #5 with the brilliant Rapture.

Surely with Go man go, there would have been six songs vying for release as a single? Or do you think they might have dropped it in favour of either Fire or Fall Down? I would have dropped the grossly over-indulgent and lazy Mood Mambo.

Six, even better! There are a few songs that could have been dropped of Mondo as it was quite a long groove crammed album. Under Their Thumb, Whitehall 1212, Another Piece of Red could all have been B-sides. Ten good tracks would have been better than twelve variable tracks.

Mark L · Loudmouth

ArrGee wrote:
Mark L wrote:
There was also more to the decline of the Rats than a record label change.
Maybe, but I wonder if Mondo Bongo was an Ensign release if there would have been a bit more feedback on it from Nigel Grainge that may have resulted in a different LP. I don't know the inner workings but possibly Phil Wainman's production of the other tracks on Surfacing as such that Mutt Lange was called back by the label. Possibly he acted as a quality control and may have suggested change in producer. Might even have suggested single releases such as going with #1 instead of Do You In. And could have brought forward more commercial tracks like House on Fire and Up All Night onto Mondo and may even have had Go Man Go as a single.
All idle speculation, but meanwhile...
(The input on Banana Republic suggests a strong influence, and I have removed some rather inflammatory comments on the greatest team the world has ever seen)
https://www.musicweek.com/labels/read/bob-geldof-nigel-grainge-made-you-feel-anything-was-possible/068832
Music icon Sir Bob Geldof has spoken to Music Week about his relationship with friend and mentor Nigel Grainge, who passed away last week at the age of 70 following complications after recent surgery.
Grainge, the older brother of Universal Music boss Sir Lucian, began his music career in the 1970s and went on to sign and develop a range of artists from Sinead O'Connor to The Boomtown Rats, Thin Lizzy, The Waterboys, 10cc, World Party, Steve Miller Band, Eddy Grant, The Blue Aeroplanes, and Graham Parker & The Rumour, among many others.
Having played a pivotal role in launching the career of The Boomtown Rats, Grainge and frontman Geldof remained friends over the past four decades. And, according to Geldof, his career would never have been the same without Grainges vision or support, after the band signed with his label Ensign.
He loved the demo tapes when he heard them and went nuts, Geldof told Music Week. So he came over to see us at Cork University and he loved it. Backstage all he did was talk about music with us. He talked about R&B, the blues and asking if we knew this and saying we should do a version of that. He played records to us all the time, plus there was the fact he was staring his label, was just starting up, and he needed us to be a success for him to be a success. He absolutely needed us to break.
It was Nigel who brilliantly spotted this is his skill this little band out of Dublin with this very mouthy singer, Geldof continued. The press used to say, Who are these ****ers? What is this terrible noise theyre making? Nigel just got it and liked me giving it plenty of mouth!
Geldof also noted the fact that, in his eyes, Grainge wasnt, on the surface, the most obvious person to drive the Boomtown Rats into the mainstream.
He looked uncool, but what he had was impeccable music taste, Geldof laughed. That is where his taste shone through. And there was his family history. His dad owned the first record shop in North London and his little brother was this kid he dragged around to Rats gigs picking his nose called Lucian. He was just bringing his whole family into this thing he did.
During the bands formative years, Geldof claimed that it was Grainges passion and belief that allowed them to evolve from a group of young upstarts into one of Irelands most recognisable outfits.
He was such an enthusiast it was infectious, he continued. He made you believe anything was possible. He always remained the perfect sounding board. But it was awful going to play him your tracks. Seriously awful, because hed just go, Next, if he didn't like it. Then he would look up with a slack jaw and his eyes wide open and hed go, I dont ****ing believe it! Or just definitively, Thats a smash. But best of all, hed say, Thats a hit, but not like that. Thats what he said with I Dont Like Mondays. Id written it as a rock song but I played it to the band as a reggae track, and he heard it and came in and asked what it was. I said, Ah, its just ****. And he goes, Thats your next No.1. I said, Oh **** off, its at best a B-side, to which he said, That is your next No.1 but not like that.
He said that about Banana Republic. He said, Why dont you put the chorus at the front for ****s suck, its so obvious. I said, Thats lame! He goes, Put the chorus at the front, it's a single! His ears were just incredible. I mean, Sinéad [OConnor]. Just taking Sinéad and spotting Nothing Compares 2 U, an obscure Prince track.
For Geldof, Britain has lost one of its most influential and talented executives in Grainge. And, he said, his personal debt to Grainge is one that can never be repaid.
I dont know what this errant, mouthy, knobhead paddy would have done had Nigel not come along and hit me with the record stick, Geldof said. God knows what would have happened to me or the other guys. When I got the news I walked out of my house in Kent and it was a beautiful evening and I thought, I have this because of that guy. Literally it is that direct line in telling me what I had to do. He just understood that something could be made of this. And then for him to be a friend It was just a privilege knowing that man.
Away from the Boomtown Rats, Geldof also recalled one of his most recent memories of Grainge: When I got married a couple of years ago we were all in the south of France. Obviously we invited Nige. I had the sort of rocknroll people all together on one table and it was ****ing hilarious. He was really holding court. A lot of the players got up and we played on a little stage, and Nigel was right at the front watching. It was a racket and we were all completely pissed, but he was just in heaven.

Hats off to Nigel to some extent, but Geldof seems lacking in self-belief and confidence here. The idea Geldof only has Davington because of Nigel Grainge is absurd. To a lesser, or even larger, degree would not the Boomtown Rats have been a late 70s/early 80s success anyway? Who's to say? The Rats had run out of money by 84/85 and Davington was bought after that. I know the book sales would have helped but is it really true to effectively say 'no Nigel, no book, no Priory'? Such is the nature of Geldof, would he not have been a success in any event? The cream always rises to the top?