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Originally posted by: ArrGee
" I see it as a Rat Trap prototype, and part of a Dublin trilogy (ending with When the Night Comes).  Since all I'd ever heard from Bruce Springsteen prior to hearing the Rats in 1978 was the dire River, I didn't realise how much they had leant on the Boss for the trilogy.  I first heard it live on TV (probably Rock Goes to College), and thought that it was Joey rather than Rat Trap that was the new single back in 1978. I think it is quite accomplished musically, but, as I have come to discover, a little unoriginal.  I like the bass line a lot (I always did like Pete's bass lines, good job Mutt Lange worked him hard), but I like it all. "

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A Rat Trap prototype?  Hadn't thought of that, but yes, I suppose it IS earlier then Rat Trap.  I've just heard more OF Rat Trap (and I like the way it's evolved - my first reaction to the original was "this is a really BAD Bruce imitation."  At this point, I'm so used to Rat Trap, I barely notice the Bruce-ness anymore, and I think it's also evolved away from that a bit.).

In the early Bruce days, I wasn't much of a fan; I'm only beginning to really appreciate Bruce now (just as all my fanatical Srpingsteen fan friends are getting bored by him).  I ALWAYS loved Clarence though.  Clarence is so.....COOL.  The BTR (or Mutt) should have simply invited Clarence to London for a vacation if they wanted Bruce's sax sound.

As far as a trilogy is concerned, I haven't listened to "When the Night Comes" yet, so I will reserve my opinion.

"The dire River"?  At first I thought you were referring to Meeting Across The River from the LP Born To Run, which is an EXCELLENT track.  Now I see that you're referring to the LP "The River", with which I'm not familiar enough to have an opinion.  I was getting my dates (what came out when) messed up.  Born To Run is earlier.

Edited to add:  I don't get it.  The LP "The River" wasn't released until 1980.  Not sure if the track "The River" was released earlier as a single, but I doubt it would have been released that much earlier.  Now, (the brilliant) Meeting Across The River from Born To Run was released in 1975.  I've absolutely no idea what you think is dire, but of the likely candidates, I'll probably disagree with you (and strongly disagree).  Still, it's hard to know what you're complaining about.

Anyway, after hearing Joey, I'm glad BG made his Springsteen "joke" after playing Rat Trap.  If he'd made that remark after playing Joey, he might not have gotten out of the venue alive. 

Joey, accomplished musically?  We'll have to agree to disagree there as well.  Perhaps it has some merit on its own terms, but to me it's a staggeringly failed attempt at early Bruce.

-- Edited by franna at 21:12, 2005-04-10

-- Edited by franna at 21:28, 2005-04-10

I also have only heard this album (referring to the re-released CD) a few times. I’m no expert at all, and have nothing to compare it to (in terms of other punk/new wave bands at the time, singles, the originally-released album, etc.) Just a few novice opinions…

My favorite track has to be A Second Time. I wish I knew the history/meaning behind this song because it has shadows of the emotion of I Can Make It If You Can in Geldof’s voice and lyrics, which is touching to me. Personally this sounds like a watered-down version of some of Ozzy’s slower stuff (“Mama I’m Comin’ Home,” “See You On the Other Side,” etc.), with its slow beat and beautiful, wailing guitar solos. Fingers’ introduction sounds a bit Charlie-Brownish but luckily, Simon and the guitars envelop the piano to produce a very lovely sound. Geldof’s a little out of tune in some places and near the end, his grating voice hurts my throat, but it all adds to, again, the emotional landscape of the song.

So it’s no surprise that I Can Make It is my second favorite. In my opinion (fran ) the guitar and tune here resembles the Stones’ “Angie,” one of my favorite Stones songs. Now the first version I heard of this was the live version from the Best Of compilation, which was good and Stones-y and all, but I was pleasantly surprised hearing this CD’s version. Geldof’s voice is void of Jagger’s vocal impression - it is more true to Geldof, and it just sounds prettier than how he sounds in the live version. My knowing the story behind the song allows me to appreciate what he’s saying to the fullest. The tempo and instrumental work (particularly the piano and guitar) makes this song easy for escapism.

While I’m on the slow-tempo angle, Kicks manages to writhe up in third place of my song placing – solely due to the 16-bar slow break about a minute and a half into the song. This comes from nowhere, I was taken aback the first time I heard it. Knowing that Geldof is not a huge Pink Floyd fan, it was surprising to hear how ‘Floydian’ those 16 bars sounded. The soft drumbeat, the wistful tune, and the backing ‘ooo-ooos’ sounded a bit like a segment of Floyd’s “The Show Must Go On,” or any other Floyd song that has those qualities. Anyway I liked the sound a lot, and it was a very strange but great break from the rest of this so-so song.

Mary of the 4th Form, Joey’s on the Street Again, Neon Heart, and Close As You’ll Ever Be are all tied in my ranks. I like all of the ‘and in the middle of the night…’ verses in Mary since they’re in a minor key as opposed to the rest of the song. Likewise, the ‘Joey did this, and Joey did that’ phrase has a good sound and the rest of the song isn’t too bad. I agree with Fran with the sax solo though, that’s very annoying and I want to tell the sax player to calm down a little or he’ll ruin the instrument!

Neon Heart and Close As are songs that have a decent tune, and good, dark, glum lyrics. They’re well-blended tracks and they’re not too ‘happy’ sounding which I enjoy. The first time I heard Close As was in the Music Machine segment of the BTR DVD, and I loved watching Bob all wild ‘n maniacal while performing the song, so now I always associate the song with those great images, which bumps the song up to this ranking.

She’s Gonna Do You In, Lookin’ After No. 1, and Never Bite the Hand that Feeds are next. They’re all just average, and while there’s nothing really gripping to me from them, they’re also not so annoying that I just want to skip ‘em. I never heard/knew what was so great about No. 1 even though it was such a huge hit of the BTR. The lyrics are decent and all but I really don’t like that Beach Boys “Wipe Out” sound to it, especially those drums, blech. But it’s full of energy and I guess that was the popular sound at the time. I’m not a big blues fan and Do You In is quite blues-y with the harmonica and everything. I do like watching Bob put all his effort & sweat into that harmonica solo, but not hearing it as much. Never Bite is just kinda ok kinda cool kinda annoying kinda whatever (that’s a great review).

The songs I really really don’t care for at all are those other bonus tracks – Bare Footin’, Fanzine Hero, Doin’ It Right, and Blues Away. Too boringly upbeat, too similar-sounding, a couple too blues-y, too much major key, and I don’t even care to figure out the lyrics b/c I dislike the tunes so much. Not even worth me separating each one & explaining why I don’t like them. No cool twists in any of them, they are just not unique and if I heard just the music (and not Bob’s distinct voice), I wouldn’t think that they were the BTR at all. Granted, the BTR have a huge variety of sound in their songs and went through a lot of different styles, but these don’t stand out to me at all. I think I’m beating a dead horse.

I just like minor-sounding songs better overall, and the BTR have made some really fine songs in the minor key, but they’re not in this album too much. This is not my favorite album, probably just more in the middle. Not embarrassingly bad, but not that great. I do like the whole bitterness that lies in most of these lyrics but again, most of the tunes are just boring to me. I’m more of a fan of their slower, ‘prettier’-sounding songs. In the Long Grass is by far my favorite BTR album, that is more of the ‘sound’ I like, while this one is too old-time-rock ‘n roll sounding for my taste…with the exception of Second Time and I Can Make It.

yea for boring readers to tears

Hi, this is just a thought...but maybe the "4th Form" is the name of the class that Mary belongs to at school? its about a student who seduces her teacher right? This explanation makes sence to me, dont know about u?

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Originally posted by: Jules
"4th Form was the year they were in."

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I don't know where Cindy's from, but the US has no such thing as a "form."  There IS a fourth "grade", but I don't know if those are analogous.  I'd say you're probably about ... nine or ten years old in fourth grade.  Is that the same age as fourth form? 

Our educational systems are VERY different in certain respects!

We don't have O levels or A levels, and our University system is also organized quite differently.  It's more difficult than you imagine to try and follow a discussion involving education.  It seems to be more than just different names for the same thing, rather that the systems are more different than they are similar.

In any case, Mary of the Fourth Form becomes an entirely different song when you finally learn that it's written about a teenager, not a nine year old.