V Deep - reviews

MMbullybuddyGP · Drag Me Down

V Deep - reviews

_johanna_ · Drag Me Down

RE: reviews

MMbullybuddyGP · Drag Me Down

all right, you caught me there, as I said nothing about Little Death's lyrics! I meant to look them up but I think that's the one song I said nothing about lyrically. you're right, they're fine, there's nothing I dislike about 'em, but ... the rest of the song's contributes are so boring/poor that not even the lyrics can save my negative opinion of the song.

same thing I said 'bout Room 19, I can't stand that song so much that even amazing lyrics wouldn't make me like it much more.

but thanks, you pointed out an aspect I didn't even consider with the song, and I have no problem with debates/disagreements in opinions...makes for good discussions

_johanna_ · Drag Me Down

ha...well, as I said, I'm not crazy about the music of the little death, but the lyrics...oh, yes..they work for me
room 19, well...the lyrics are better than the music, but I don't dislike it enough to never listen to it...it's one of the first songs from Bob's solowork I ever heard, didn't like it much then, but it's the kind of song the grows on you...

ha...well, there aren't many good discussions here anyway, is there? :-/

Mark L · Loudmouth

RE: V Deep - reviews

noelindublin · Loudmouth

Mark L wrote:
I put this in the car for a long business drive the other day, turned the mobile off and gave it a full airing. The review here is pretty spot on I would say. I think Skin on Skin would have made a great single. I've often read it was considered too risquee but with what Frankie released a year later, Marvin Gaye's 'Sexual healing', no end of sultry hits from Donna Summer in the late '70s and with Olivia Newton John proclaiming in her '80s hit 'Physical' that 'I took you to an intimate restaurant, then to a suggestive movie, there's nothing left to talk about unless it's horizontally' - just how much of a risk would the already 'controversial' Rats have been taking with this at the time?
The Starland Vocal Band may have wrapped a similar theme up into a more sugary 'Afternoon Delight package, but 6 years on, hadn't we all grown up a bit and would the earth really have stopped, as we panned from Boy George to another BG and his cohorts in the spring of '82 with this gem?

Afternoon Delight reminds me a bit of that old Carry On Up The Khyber movie with Sid James(Sir Sydney Ruff Diamond lol) always up for a spot of afternoon tiffin. Maybe thats how the Empire was lost!

I though Cadburys had stopped making Tiffin but just checking it seems to be still around. Just like Curly Wurlys.Hurray.

-- Edited by noelindublin on Tuesday 4th of September 2012 02:32:09 PM

Mark L · Loudmouth

It does have that Carry On feel to it, doesn't it?!

I think though with SOS, say with the 'London stops' bit shortened a little, this could have made more impact on the charts than Million Years and House on Fire. Certainly, these were good singles but whoever chose Charmed Lives as single 3 from V Deep, made a mistake and SOS would have been a much better choice. I always remember a DJ on ILR playing Charmed Lives in the summer of '82 and saying 'OMG....what have they have gone and done etc' and there was a short phone-in debating how such a successful group had 'lost their way so badly'.

I wonder how feasible it might have been to keep interest up in '83, say going back to Mondo Bongo, which of course had only spawned 2 singles and putting out a 3rd single from it, say Go man Go or rereleasing Elephant's Graveyard?

Geldof repeatedly said through much of '82 and '83 he would rerelease NIAMY, and when that happened it was as a b side to the 4th single from In The Long Grass and I somehow sometimes felt that was not really keeping the promise.

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

Mark L wrote:
I always remember a DJ on ILR playing Charmed Lives in the summer of '82 and saying 'OMG....what have they have gone and done etc' and there was a short phone-in debating how such a successful group had 'lost their way so badly'.
...
I wonder how feasible it might have been to keep interest up in '83, say going back to Mondo Bongo

Watching the BBC 4 programme on the Undertones last night, I was surprised to find out they had a fourth LP, and listening to the songs broadcast, they lost their way pretty badly at that point.

Arguably V Deep was Mondo Part II. Up All Night and House on Fire were recorded before, and it wouldn't surprise me if there were other songs that had been recorded for Mondo Bongo.

If a single opportunity was missed in the UK, it was Up All Night. The video was regularly on MTV US, and it was in the club charts. Had anyone at Mercury had any sense they would have released it as a 12" super single between Mondo and V Deep, even if all it did was give the Rats some airplay.

As disasterous as Charmed Lives was, the damage had been done with Million Years. With Up All Night and House on Fire as singles which would probably have both been top twenty with more dance orientated mixes, V Deep may have been a bit more successful.

noelindublin · Loudmouth

Perhaps the bands biggest mistake was releasing Charmed Lives as a single rather than Up All Night. Up All Night resonates more with the club scene so might have been a club hit back in the early eighties, rather than a lame song about bad hair days and having nothing much to do(even if it was meant in an ironic way).

I always wonder who chose Charmed Lives as a single. Was it a choice by the band, the record company or what? After the failure of Million Years a quick remedy was needed, but Charmed Lives was not the answer and only House On Fire saw any relatively lowly chart action, by the Rats previous high placings. I always find Charmed Lives a bit of a 'shaggy dog' song, in that I can't hate it, but in the overall scheme of things it was perhaps a shaggy dogs dinner of a song.

Just out of interest what if the band and the record company and even individual band members all differ in what should be a single. How does that work out?

suss · In the Long Grass

Do find myself also agreeing with pretty much everything in the review. Talking in Code as a track grew on me tremendously after their live variation of it (bit like Hurt Hurts did from previous for same reason). Would probably have been a little more positive about He Watches it All; good build/layering to the track, good break in the middle, and interesting (if impenetrable) lyrics. Might have been more damning of Charmed Lives too. Irritating for too many reasons.

Skin on Skin was a standout track from first hearing and clearly a better option for 45 than Charmed Lives. I've always thought Bob was trying to keep with the times on V Deep and pursuing more of a jazz funk feel. Skin on Skin is where he gets closest, with a good tune to boot.

Re: choice of singles - can't believe the band were getting too much say on anything by this stage, or it was falling on deaf ears. My money's on Bob plus some suit in the company who thought they were capturing spirit of 82, whilst forgetting to check if the song was half decent or had any hook.

Funnily enough I thought Never in A Million Years was a similar story, with a far stronger song in my view. It compares favourably with things like Vienna, or Souvenir, or numerous other synthy songs from the time, but no one could quite believe Rats were doing it so they were failed miserably. Not a new band to be lauded, just an old band making radical changes that lost old fans and didn't find new. Could have been a hit for some up and coming trendies I'd venture.

Up All Night would have been more credible for Rats. Happened to watch this on YouTube fairly recently and there are loads of recent comments, obviously from people younger than the song, saying what a cool track. Seems to be featured on some contemporary show in the States by look of it, and half the comments say they only tune in for the song. Quite amusing to see how many say the guy singing looks like Pink (from the film obviously, not the feisty blond songstress smile ).

Which pretty much leads me back to my precis of V Deep - continued identity crisis.

ArrGee · Back To Boomtown

suss wrote:
Would probably have been a little more positive about He Watches it All; good build/layering to the track, good break in the middle, and interesting (if impenetrable) lyrics.
Re: choice of singles - can't believe the band were getting too much say on anything by this stage, or it was falling on deaf ears. My money's on Bob plus some suit in the company who thought they were capturing spirit of 82, whilst forgetting to check if the song was half decent or had any hook.
Which pretty much leads me back to my precis of V Deep - continued identity crisis.

He Watches It All is absolutely brilliant. I wouldn't have it down as a single, but when I first heard V Deep, it was such a standout. The only pity was they didn't match the high standard it set elsewhere.

The choice of singles post Banana Republic until Dave was puzzling. Go Man Go sounded far more of a single than Guilty, yet wasn't released as one in the UK. Charmed Lives was never a single whereas Up All Night was, and Tonight wasn't the best lead single from In The Long Grass. It's almost as if they didn't want a hit.

Mondo Bongo and V Deep could be both defined as an identity crisis. Visconti wasn't the ideal producer as he happy to indulge Geldof's whims, and Geldof didn't really have any focus nor vision. Even with Vegetarians of Love, it was only latterly decided to go whole sale cajun/celtic pretty late in the day.

http://www.hotpress.com/music/interviews/Another-Side-Of-Bob-Geldof--/415822.html A very good article. A cut-price Irish Bowie! indeed

Mark L · Loudmouth

ArrGee wrote:
The choice of singles post Banana Republic until Dave was puzzling. Go Man Go sounded far more of a single than Guilty, yet wasn't released as one in the UK. Charmed Lives was never a single whereas Up All Night was, and Tonight wasn't the best lead single from In The Long Grass. It's almost as if they didn't want a hit.
Mondo Bongo and V Deep could be both defined as an identity crisis. Visconti wasn't the ideal producer as he happy to indulge Geldof's whims, and Geldof didn't really have any focus nor vision. Even with Vegetarians of Love, it was only latterly decided to go whole sale cajun/celtic pretty late in the day.

Agree with all of the above, except thought Guilty was a brilliant 2nd single, GMG would have made a good third single and should not have been restricted to Ireland. Guilty was oddly truncated with last verse left out. Third verse nicely rounds off the view on the riots, effects on OAPs & the misapplication of justice. Clever Costello-esque stuff with a humorous video.

Mark L · Loudmouth

House on Fire on ILR in Lancashire today in 'School Days' when '82 was the featured year and the Rats got an airing alongside predictable '82 fodder like ABC, Human League, Dexys, OMD and Haircut 100.

Cue old jokes: What song do you get if you add graceful white waterfowl to romance: Love plus swan

and what group do you get when Andre Previn is doing the vacuuming with the lights off: Orchestral Man hoovers in the dark